Steering effort 8N vs 860

[Jeff Hamilton]

I've had the '52 8N for 6 years and just got a 1955 860 . My question is with regard to the steering. The 8N steers with ease, it's not power steering, but on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being very hard steering, I'd rate the 8N steering a 3 to 4. However, the 860 steering is more like a 7-8 (also, not power). If you're performing a slow maneuver with the 860 it's a two handed effort (direction does not matter). No loaders involved. Both tractors have 6X16 3 rib front tires, although the 8N fronts are new and, with the 860 front tires, the center rib is a lot taller than the side ribs. The 8n rear tires are empty, but the 860 rears are loaded. In both cases, nothing hanging on the 3-point. Oh, I almost forgot, the 8N is a side mount, 12V and I have all the important manuals for both tractors! So, is it typical that the 860 steers so much harder or should I look for something to fix? thanks, Jeff

 

[stevob671]

Dad had both of those tractors. Same thing...the 860 required significantly more effort to steer than the 8N. They are a fair bit heavier.
This picture was taken couple years before we sold them as part of the estate. Kind of wish we still had the 860 at least.

 

[Dean]

Sounds normal.

Dean

 

[Sean in PA]

Jack the front end of the 860 up so that both wheels are off the ground and turn the steering wheel. If it turns easily then the harder steering with the wheels on the ground is most likely normal as the others have said. The 860 is a bit heavier, and if the tires are different then that could be contributing to it as well. If it steers hard with the front wheels off the ground then there's probably something wrong inside the steering box and/or spindles.

 

[Bern]

While it may be normal for the 860 to steer harder, it would be a good idea to check the oil level in the box to make sure you're not starting to fail a bearing. I've seen this many times. Not many people check steering box oil level on a routine basis.

 

[Texasmark]

I'll agree that the weight difference is significant. Toe in could make a difference if incorrect. Air pressure in the tires could too. I just sold my '63 2000D with original front end in excellent shape and it was a 2 handed operation even though it was an upscale 600 series, not the heavier 800 series. My '65 3000D was hard steering too till I put an aftermarket power steering kit on it.

 

[tractorguy2]

I'm sure the 860 will steer harder. I would check the gear box fluid level and grease all the spindles and tie rods.

I have a 9n I put new steering gears in back in 1999. I can steer it with one hand.
Dad has a 1962 4000 row crop. (Same tractor as a 971) The 4000 is a wide front dad removed the power steering because of the constant leaks. The 4000 is geared slower than the 9n. Have to really crank on the steering wheel to turn short with the 4000. When backing up to an implement. Have to take two or three runs at it to get lined up. Very difficult to steer going backwards. The 9n I can steer going backwards with one hand and put the tractor right where I want it.

 

[Ultradog MN]

I don't see why they would be so different.
The late 8Ns and the Hundreds had almost identical steering. And though an 860 is heavier I don't see how a couple? hundred lbs of front weight would make the difference you are seeing. In addition to what Bern suggests I would also check the spindles for adequate grease and also inspect the spindle thrust bearings. They are not greaseable and if bound up or disintegrating will make a tractor steer much harder.
Photo shows the top of the spindle on my 3000. Note the small amount of clearance between the steering arm and spindle housing (knee) if yours is much more than that I would suspect your thrust bearings.

 

[Dean]

Trust me, it's noticeable.

Both my 51 (since sold) and 52 8Ns steered noticeably easier than my 55 860 (since sold) when stationary and unweighted and all steering components in proper operating condition. All tractors had good three rib tires.

Perhaps steering ratios are different. Don't know.

Dean

 

[michford]

Gotta agree with Ultradog on this one. I dont have an 8N, but I have a 641 that steers with one hand, and have an 860 that also steers easy with one hand. Neither has power steering. Condition of the steering box, spindle bushings, and thrust washers in the bottom of the axle knees all play a part in ease of steering.

 

[Top K (VA)]

Saw this today and it sounds like something I would have written! I too just switched from a '49 8N to a '55 860 - just finished bush hogging for the first time, and boy, what a workout steering this beast! I was running front tires at 20 psi - will add a few pounds next time (doubt it will make any difference, but worth a try). :-(

 

[Steve in IL]

A wider mower on the back of a 860 makes for easier steering! We had a 6 foot brush mower on the back of dad's 641. If it was up in the air, much of our steering was done with the brakes!

 

[Fordfarmer]

Saw this today and it sounds like something I would have written! I too just switched from a '49 8N to a '55 860 - just finished bush hogging for the first time, and boy, what a workout steering this beast! I was running front tires at 20 psi - will add a few pounds next time (doubt it will make any difference, but worth a try). :-(

Put them up to 30-35 psi. It will help!

 

[Texasmark]

While it may be normal for the 860 to steer harder, it would be a good idea to check the oil level in the box to make sure you're not starting to fail a bearing. I've seen this many times. Not many people check steering box oil level on a routine basis.

Also keep the front axle kingpins well greased. I grease mine until grease squirts out the top of the interface between the kingpin and front axle.....does make a difference.

Case in point: I recently bought a tractor that had a hydraulic cylinder mounted on the front axle to steer the front wheels. Seller said that tractor had to be moving to steer. Also ram in cylinder wouldn't go all the way in one direction. I got out a couple of farm jacks attached them to the front axle and jacked up the front end. It was obvious that the zerks on the front king pins hadn't seen grease for decades. Applying grease till it started oozing out the top the kingpin, repeatedly, and rotating the steering back and forth, in about half an hour I had both problems fixed.....just needed some grease!

 

[Jeff Hamilton]

I originally started this thread back in '22. Since then, I replaced the front spindles on the 860 since I could see the bushings were shot. Once it was back together and lubed, I found NO DIFFERENCE in steering effort (very disappointed). However, last year I made a breakthrough. The effort isn't being caused by the steering, it's being caused by the rear differential. I can watch the rear tires when I turn and see the outside one scuff the turf. I can also brake the inside tire and feel the load come off the steering wheel. It's better going one way - can't remember which. I need to further investigate whether or not the diff is messed up or that's just the way it is. It might be messed up due to the years it ran dry. Shortly after I got it and checked the oil in the rear end I found there was none. When I added some, a few hours later I found a lot of it on the ground. It turned out to be a bolt problem. Those familiar will know that there's 4 bolts that hold on the check chain bracket, or, the belt pulley. I'm pretty sure what happened is someone used a longer bolt, which worked fine on the pulley, but too long for the bracket. When it was tightened, it broke a hole thru to the inside cavity and started allowing the gear oil to run down the threads. I remedied that by applying Gasoila to the bolt threads. I'd be curious to know if anybody might have a good suggestion on how to evaluate the rear differential without taking the rear end apart. In the meantime, I just keep mowing with it.