Debating if a SoS is worth the “risk” for loader work

[dbsoundman]

I’m looking at getting something with a loader, I’ve found several 600 and 800 series tractors with loaders and manual gearboxes, and I also found an 1801 with a nice loader an a select o speed. It seems to me that the SoS would be a nice upgrade for back and forth loader work and a local collector I know is actually quite fond of the SoS but I’ve never worked with one so I wasn’t sure if it was really going to be a better choice. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

 

[Bern]

I’m looking at getting something with a loader, I’ve found several 600 and 800 series tractors with loaders and manual gearboxes, and I also found an 1801 with a nice loader an a select o speed. It seems to me that the SoS would be a nice upgrade for back and forth loader work and a local collector I know is actually quite fond of the SoS but I’ve never worked with one so I wasn’t sure if it was really going to be a better choice. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

I'm generally pretty fond of the SOS transmission myself, however back and forth loader work would be hard on the input shaft splines. It will leave you no warning when they go. One moment the tractor will move, the next moment it will be dead in the water.

 

[john in la]

While it may have been changed the 1801 would have come with the early version of the SOS. The one they had the most problems with.
As Bern said they had a lot of problems with the input shaft on the SOS. Don’t know if I would want to add loader work to that equation.
Another thing that may have been upgraded is the steering but I never did like the old cable steering the 1801 came with.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I’m looking at getting something with a loader, I’ve found several 600 and 800 series tractors with loaders and manual gearboxes, and I also found an 1801 with a nice loader an a select o speed. It seems to me that the SoS would be a nice upgrade for back and forth loader work and a local collector I know is actually quite fond of the SoS but I’ve never worked with one so I wasn’t sure if it was really going to be a better choice. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

If you need to do serious loader work buy something newer with an HST transmission.

TOH

 

[Dieseltech]

I have several Power Shift tractors, both Ford SOS and JD 3020, 4020, and 4630 models. What I like LEAST of the SOS is moving the shift quadrant back and forth from gears 5/6/7 to reverse. I would not want a loader on one. If you want a HANDY loader tractor look for an IH HYRO model. I have two of those also, Hydro 84 and 100.

 

[FOMOCO Farmer]

Get a 5 speed! Reverse and third are at the top of the shift pattern. Best loader transmission with a clutch there ever was. Of course, this was back in the day before these shuttle shift tractors.

 

[showcrop]

It is easy to ID an early vs. second generation by the cover. The early is rounded evenly all the way across from left to right. The 2nd gen slants down to the right at 3/4 of the way across

 

[Husker 50 8n]

I’m looking at getting something with a loader, I’ve found several 600 and 800 series tractors with loaders and manual gearboxes, and I also found an 1801 with a nice loader an a select o speed. It seems to me that the SoS would be a nice upgrade for back and forth loader work and a local collector I know is actually quite fond of the SoS but I’ve never worked with one so I wasn’t sure if it was really going to be a better choice. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

I have a 5000 SOS with a loader. I do like the SOS but the blue versions are supposed to have some of the improvements/updates that may have caused problems on the early SOS. The 1965 and newer models have an improved input shaft according to what I have read, not certain of that. I currently have 4 SOS tractors, all blue. The shifting lever on the 3000 and 5000 models is a little longer than the earlier SOS models. Very nice tractors to use.

 

[Brad_G]

I loved our SOS for it's range of speeds offered while mowing or pulling the baler. But I'm not sure I'd want to be using that shifter/linkage mechanism of a ~60 year old tractor for loader work. It seems to me that you'd be tempting fate after while.

What do you plan to use the loader for? I've also got an 80's vintage Deere with loader and hydraulic reverser. It's heads and tails easier to run. But to be honest, my old skid loader will work circles around that tractor for loader work. If I could only have one loader on the place it would be the skid hands down.

 

[dbsoundman]

Great comments, thanks. I’m not doing commercial loader work or anything, but it does sound like a gearbox would be a better choice in my price range. Hydrostatic is definitely not in the budget at this moment!

 

[Destroked 450]

I’ve owned 3 SOS tractors, 871, 881, 3 cylinder 4000. Input shaft splines on the 871 were 50% worn when we rebuilt the engine in the early 90’s, traded the tractor shortly after. No issues with the 881. On the 4000 from 93-2000 repair 1 replaced the shift cable, repair 2 installed a use input shaft and new clutch coupler, repair 3 replaced the main shaft (operator error while the tractor was loaned to a friend), repair 4 pump failed and 8 spd conversion as done, still have the tractor and love the 8 spd manual
The two most common failures on the SOS transmission is input shaft splines and shifter/ shift cables, loader work increases stress and wear on the input shaft and shift mechanism
Input shafts and shift mechanisms are no longer available, and are becoming hard to find at salvage yards
If your set on a 800/801 style go with a 5 spd model, personally I don’t like the sweep back axle for loader use, a 3 cylinder 3400 utility would be a much better choice, or just step up to a 3 cylinder 4000 mid 68 or later

 

[dbsoundman]

I’ve owned 3 SOS tractors, 871, 881, 3 cylinder 4000. Input shaft splines on the 871 were 50% worn when we rebuilt the engine in the early 90’s, traded the tractor shortly after. No issues with the 881. On the 4000 from 93-2000 repair 1 replaced the shift cable, repair 2 installed a use input shaft and new clutch coupler, repair 3 replaced the main shaft (operator error while the tractor was loaned to a friend), repair 4 pump failed and 8 spd conversion as done, still have the tractor and love the 8 spd manual
The two most common failures on the SOS transmission is input shaft splines and shifter/ shift cables, loader work increases stress and wear on the input shaft and shift mechanism
Input shafts and shift mechanisms are no longer available, and are becoming hard to find at salvage yards
If your set on a 800/801 style go with a 5 spd model, personally I don’t like the sweep back axle for loader use, a 3 cylinder 3400 utility would be a much better choice, or just step up to a 3 cylinder 4000 mid 68 or later

I’m curious, what’s the issue with the sweep back axle on the 800 series?

 

[Dieseltech]

Tractors with the swept back front axles do turn a bit shorter do to the shorter wheelbase, but the center axle bushing wears much faster when a loader is on. Some IH models did that too. Straight axles, FURTHER FORWARD are best for loader use, Or MUCH MORE rear end weight will be needed for good results.

 

[Destroked 450]

I’m curious, what’s the issue with the sweep back axle on the 800 series?

I don’t have an issue with sweep back axle as I grew up on a 850 and Dexta, my 4000SU has the same axle design. However for loader use a sweep back axle needs more rear weight to counter balance the same load an equal size tractor with straight axle can carry without the extra rear weight. This in turn puts more stress on the spindles, radius arms and steering components
If you have a Ford with sweep back axle find the lightest capacity loader you can get and use it according. If your looking to purchase a tractor for loader use why purchase a sweep back axle design that put you at a disadvantage at the start
Though harder to find the early 60’s 2000/4000 light industrial along with the 3 cylinder 3400 have a similar axle and steering design but with a straight one piece front axle designed for loader use

 

[john in la]

I don’t have an issue with sweep back axle as I grew up on a 850 and Dexta, my 4000SU has the same axle design. However for loader use a sweep back axle needs more rear weight to counter balance the same load an equal size tractor with straight axle can carry without the extra rear weight. This in turn puts more stress on the spindles, radius arms and steering components
If you have a Ford with sweep back axle find the lightest capacity loader you can get and use it according. If your looking to purchase a tractor for loader use why purchase a sweep back axle design that put you at a disadvantage at the start
Though harder to find the early 60’s 2000/4000 light industrial along with the 3 cylinder 3400 have a similar axle and steering design but with a straight one piece front axle designed for loader use

I agree.

The more weight you add to the back the more chances you have of the tractor breaking in half especially with a loader frame that doesn’t go past the back side of the engine.

If you want a tractor with a loader buy a loader tractor not a ag tractor.
At the very least get a loader that the frame goes all the way to the rear axle.

 

[dbsoundman]

Great advice here. The thing is, I'm not running a big farm operation or doing commercial work. I would be getting a loader for occasional use moving whatever around a 5 acre property, with only occasional dirt work. I feel like an old school loader would be fine for this. Basically I'm trading off expense for conveniences such as power steering or a diesel engine. I also don't have the time or quite frankly the interest in dealing with a machine with lots of parts; I love the simplicity of the N series tractors into the early 60s or so. Again, trading convenience for ease of maintenance.

I think the biggest concern I have is dealing with a worn out engine. I already have a "free" 9N that I found out used to have a loader on it, and it is plum tired. That thing burns about a quart of oil in a half hour of work. I had considered putting a loader on it before I knew it had been a loader tractor in the past, but I didn't have time to work out the details on how to get it mounted, nor do I have the time to rebuild the engine on that unit. I'm actually thinking about parting that one out now that I have a much less tired 8N.

 

[flmeredith]

I dont know if this will help any of you for parts , the neighbor has a row crop 4000 sos that the tranny worked in all the gears, so the tractor is going to get parted out

 

[Rexal0t]

It sounds like your homestead is similar to mine. I have 5 acres, do hobby hay, and initially bought my tractor to keep up the property. I had a "Superior" brand loader with 3 cylinders, powered by a front mounted pump on my 871 Diesel SOS tractor. My tractor did not have power steering or pie weights mounted within the rear wheels. I found out I had to have arms like "Popeye" to turn the wheels with any amount of weight within the bucket. Even empty, it required some muscle, unless you had some momentum. Likewise, without rear weights, it was possible to pick up the rear and loose traction with a heavier load. That said, shifting to go forward and back repeatedly made my loader work easy with the SOS trans. I used the loader and tractor to build my pole barn, push snow, and other odd jobs. Having that bucket/loader was very handy, despite the flaws in my tractor's "setup". I have had the loader off my tractor for close to 20 years now, I blew a cylinder and removed it. I found it so much easier to steer, I never got around to fixing the cylinder. The tractor has been parked the past few years with a bad injection pump. If I get it going, I may just put that loader back together and back on it. I have since purchased other tractors for my hay work.

I can't comment about spline wear and tear issues. I have had to replace the shift cable (luckily not the segment within the trans) and that did take some patience getting together.

For simplicity, parts availability, and just ease of maintenance, a stick transmission equipped 801 series with power steering would be my suggestion for loader tractor. I also spent a great deal of my teen years on an earlier model 4000. No loader on it, but it was great tractor for hay raking and bush-hog work.