Ford 800 gas 172 no power after electronic ignition

[used red MN]

Although the Pertronix unit replaces the points and condenser, the rest of the system is still 1950s technology.

You haven’t been back to state an opinion or argue this fact but replies 16, 19 & 20 to a degree are addressing the plug gap you chose of 0.045”. Your search was likely based on an “Electronic Ignition” the point being made here is you don’t have a true ground up designed Electronic Ignition equivalent to that in a modern vehicle. There are several things those systems incorporate to obtain a spark with a very high voltage, I am not going into how that is accomplished here. The Pertronix conversion uses a Hall Effect sensor triggered by a magnetic sleeve to take the place of the breaker points that are essentially a switch that is being turned on and off very rapidly. So as said above you are not really converting the system to a true high voltage output “electronic ignition” all you are doing is taking out the “failure prone” mechanical breaker points and replacing them with a more reliable “electronic” switch.
To determine why the tractor has no power what needs addressed first in my opinion is the timing of the distributor after the Pertronix conversion. I started explaining how this could accomplished in my reply 12 above but I decided I needed more information to complete the steps. By what you’re saying here I believe you have enough understanding for me to continue.
It has been to long so I can’t edit that reply. To continue from my the 2nd to the last sentence there from coil…that will be the opposite terminal from the one being powered by the key. The engine timing marks are on the front of the flywheel and are viewed through a hole below the hydraulic pump. You can use the fan to turn the engine, even though the cap is off I would ground the distributor cap end of the coil wire. It might be good to have a helper to man the ignition switch to limit the time the ignition is on to preserve the Pertronix module. When you turn the engine so the rotor is moving between the 3 & 1 distributor cap terminals the test light should not be lit. At the point when the terminal receives voltage that is when the spark occurs to fire cylinder number 1. At that point the 5 degrees before TDC timing mark should be aligned with the pointer in the hole. Move the distributor until you have it set. This should put your timing at the factory spec. Then we will see how it runs.

 

[kencombs]

I think I've read that in some distributors the conversion kit will trigger the spark event at a different place in rotation than the points.

So, I'm adding my voice to the timing chorus. Check with a light or even a basic static test with a little test light.

 

[Bandit7]

Have you checked to be sure it's firing on all four cylinders? To do this, you need to get an insulated spark plug wire puller. Loosen up the spark plug boots, then run the engine at idle. One by one, pull off each plug wire and listen to the idle speed. It should drop each time you pull a plug wire, the speed back up when you put the wire back on. The difference will be very slight, but noticeable. Any cylinder that doesn't drop the rpm when you pull its plug wire is missing. If two cylinders are missing, chances are their plug wires are swapped at the distributor.

I find it interesting that your tractor wouldn't run with the plugs gapped to .045. It should have at least run poorly. To me, that's another indication it's missing on a couple of cylinders. (I have no idea why you decided to gap the plugs so wide, but that's besides the point.)

Spark plug wire boot puller

Just checked 2nd one from the front dead last one back closest to steering wheel dead so it’s definitely down 2 cylinders. The plugs is firing but definitely dead. Any ideas???

 

[Bandit7]

Update pulled plug wires off #2 and #3 cylinder nothing changed so definitely down 2 cylinders but plugs are firing good any ideas??

 

[used red MN]

Just checked 2nd one from the front dead last one back closest to steering wheel dead so it’s definitely down 2 cylinders. The plugs is firing but definitely dead. Any ideas???

???

Update pulled plug wires off #2 and #3 cylinder nothing changed so definitely down 2 cylinders but plugs are firing good any ideas??

So the cylinders are numbered 1 at the front close to fan/radiator counting to 4 on the back cylinder closest to the seat. So I take reply 23 was incorrect and you settled on what you reported in reply 24 with cylinders 2 and 3 making no change when you remove their spark, is this correct?
The firing order is 1-2-4-3 that placed cylinders two and three 180 degrees of rotation from each other in the cap. Since you did some work on the ignition I would swap the positions of the wires in the cap for cylinders 2 & 3 and see if that improves/allows cylinders 2 & 3 to fire. Or to verify the correct order you are reporting number 1 cylinder drops out when you pull spark from it this tells you it must be firing correctly in the sequence. The distributor rotates clockwise so the plug wire next in rotation should be 2, the next 4 which seems to be correct since (I think) you’re reporting as firing so it should be correct, that leaves 3 as next in line then back to one. Do your cylinder cut out (removing spark) now and see if all the cylinder now drop out as in change the sound and lower the rpm. If so YAY!! If not, then pull plugs 2 & 3 hold your thumb or finger on the plug hole pull the coil wire and crank it see if it pushes compression in both holes. If none you have two stuck valves or the head gasket is blown between the cylinders.
Since you reported it ran alright before my guess would be placing the spark plug wires in the correct order will bring her back. Messing up a firing order happens to even seasoned mechanics, however many don’t like to admit it.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Update pulled plug wires off #2 and #3 cylinder nothing changed so definitely down 2 cylinders but plugs are firing good any ideas??

Double-check firing order and make sure the plug wires are in the correct order for the distributor rotation.

 

[Texasmark]

Double-check firing order and make sure the plug wires are in the correct order for the distributor rotation.

Agree. Spark has to arrive on time, not 180* out when the cylinder is empty.

 

[Bandit7]

???

So the cylinders are numbered 1 at the front close to fan/radiator counting to 4 on the back cylinder closest to the seat. So I take reply 23 was incorrect and you settled on what you reported in reply 24 with cylinders 2 and 3 making no change when you remove their spark, is this correct?
The firing order is 1-2-4-3 that placed cylinders two and three 180 degrees of rotation from each other in the cap. Since you did some work on the ignition I would swap the positions of the wires in the cap for cylinders 2 & 3 and see if that improves/allows cylinders 2 & 3 to fire. Or to verify the correct order you are reporting number 1 cylinder drops out when you pull spark from it this tells you it must be firing correctly in the sequence. The distributor rotates clockwise so the plug wire next in rotation should be 2, the next 4 which seems to be correct since (I think) you’re reporting as firing so it should be correct, that leaves 3 as next in line then back to one. Do your cylinder cut out (removing spark) now and see if all the cylinder now drop out as in change the sound and lower the rpm. If so YAY!! If not, then pull plugs 2 & 3 hold your thumb or finger on the plug hole pull the coil wire and crank it see if it pushes compression in both holes. If none you have two stuck valves or the head gasket is blown between the cylinders.
Since you reported it ran alright before my guess would be placing the spark plug wires in the correct order will bring her back. Messing up a firing order happens to even seasoned mechanics, however many don’t like to admit it

 

[Bandit7]

Cylinders 2 and 3 are the ones not firing. Eye view is 2 and 4 sorry for the confusion

 

[Jim.ME]

Cylinders 2 and 3 are the ones not firing. Eye view is 2 and 4 sorry for the confusion

To be clear. Have you tried putting the #2 wire where #3 is in the distributor cap now and the #3 wire where #2 is now? If you have not done this, swap those two wires and try it.

 

[used red MN]

To be clear. Have you tried putting the #2 wire where #3 is in the distributor cap now and the #3 wire where #2 is now? If you have not done this, swap those two wires and try it.

To be even more clear the numbers Jim is giving are the plug wires of spark plugs of the cylinders as I described their order in reply 25.
I would certainly like you to better describe what you mean by the following? Eye veiw?

Eye view is 2 and 4 sorry for the confusion

Going forward, please only refer to the cylinders as I described their numbered layout in reply 25, 1 to 4 front to back.

 

[Bandit7]

To be even more clear the numbers Jim is giving are the plug wires of spark plugs of the cylinders as I described their order in reply 25.
I would certainly like you to better describe what you mean by the following? Eye veiw?

Going forward, please only refer to the cylinders as I described their numbered layout in reply 25, 1 to 4 front to back.

To be even more clear the numbers Jim is giving are the plug wires of spark plugs of the cylinders as I described their order in reply 25.
I would certainly like you to better describe what you mean by the following? Eye veiw?

Going forward, please only refer to the cylinders as I described their numbered layout in reply 25, 1 to 4 front to back.

Sorry Jim I’ll only use actual cylinder numbers now. I attached a photo for example of down cylinders

 

[used red MN]

Sorry Jim I’ll only use actual cylinder numbers now. I attached a photo for example of down cylinders

From what I see the plug wires are on correctly, but a bit hard to see where plug wires 1 & 2 are going, but per your report of cylinder 1 firing during the cut-out test it nearly has to be correct. How about a photo of the EI unit installed and what the inside of the distributor cap looks like. Testing for compression push in 2 and 4 as I described following “YAY” in reply 25 would be helpful as well.

 

[Jim.ME]

Is the clip on the distributor shaft that holds the rotor button aligned, in place?

 

[Bandit7]

Is the clip on the distributor shaft that holds the rotor button aligned, in place?

Yes. No compression in those 2 cylinders. pulled it apart the new pistons and rings look perfect. Any ideas on what else it could be?

 

[Bandit7]

From what I see the plug wires are on correctly, but a bit hard to see where plug wires 1 & 2 are going, but per your report of cylinder 1 firing during the cut-out test it nearly has to be correct. How about a photo of the EI unit installed and what the inside of the distributor cap looks like. Testing for compression push in 2 and 4 as I described following “YAY” in reply 25 would be helpful as well.

No compression on those 2 cylinders. The new head gasket looked great pistons and rings look great. Any suggestions on what else to look at?

 

[used red MN]

No compression on those 2 cylinders. The new head gasket looked great pistons and rings look great. Any suggestions on what else to look at?

The valve lash settings could have been two tight, should have checked before removing the head. Is the head still off? Set the head with the combustion chambers up, the pour diesel, solvent or auto trans fluid in them so the valve heads are covered with it at least an 1/8” over them. The fluid should be held in there and only leak out at a slow drip, about once every 10 seconds. If the fluid can’t be held in the combustion chambers those valves aren’t sealing properly.

 

[MarkB_MI]

No compression on those 2 cylinders. The new head gasket looked great pistons and rings look great. Any suggestions on what else to look at?

New head gasket? This is the first time you mentioned doing any major work on the motor. You only said you did the Pertronix conversion along with plug wires and coil. How long did the tractor run well AFTER you had the head off but before you installed the Pertronix kit?

Did you do a wet compression test by squirting oil in the bad cylinders? If the compression didn't come up on the wet test, that would have eliminated the pistons and rings. My guess is sticking valves, or valve lash set too tight.

 

[Bandit7]

New head gasket? This is the first time you mentioned doing any major work on the motor. You only said you did the Pertronix conversion along with plug wires and coil. How long did the tractor run well AFTER you had the head off but before you installed the Pertronix kit?

Did you do a wet compression test by squirting oil in the bad cylinders? If the compression didn't come up on the wet test, that would have eliminated the pistons and rings. My guess is sticking valves, or valve lash set too tight.

My dad refreshed the engine and it ran good other than the rear seal leaking oil. He finally got that fixed and converted it to the Pertronix. I’ll tell him to check the valves, Do you by chance know what the lash should be?

 

[used red MN]

Do you by chance know what the lash should be?

Spec I found on the YT tune-up section says intake and exhaust .015” hot.