MF135 new water pump leaks issue

[danc1948]

Hello, looking for some advice and thoughts on why my new water pump is leaking. The water pump I replaced was not leaking but was making too much noise so I figured it was on its way out and as I had recently had to have the radiator repaired I thought I would replace the water pump. The pump I took off had a metal backing plate.(have enclosed a photo.) The pump and the gasket were from Allstate, a metal backing plate like the original was not offered or included. I placed the gasket on the pump first then the metal backing plate no sealants, installed and tightened the bolts good, put the radiator on etc. and it leaks from two of the bolts before even trying to start the tractor. Before I do this process again, I thought I would ask for recommendations and advice. Maybe I shouldn’t use the metal backing plate and should just try gasket only? Should I use a sealant? If so, what kind? Comments are welcome, thank you!

 

[Dieseltech]

If the bolts are not in blind holes, but are open to the coolant you MIGHT need sealing washers under the bolt heads, either copper or aluminum would work. Can you find EXACTLY where the leak is? Sealer on the bolt threads MIGHT be needed too.

 

[danc1948]

Thanks for your help have enclosed a picture of the engine and the bolt holes where the pump attaches, judging from the pump that I took off I don’t think that the coolant can go in and out of those holes, but I don’t know for sure, but the washers on the original pump were just regular lock washers. The water comes out as a solid drip from underneath the two right side bolts. just from filling the radiator. while I was able to pry off the metal backing plate of the original pump without noticeably mangling it in anyway I am suspicious that it might still be out of round and not letting the new gaskets seal, but I don’t know. I can enclose other pictures if it would help. thanks.

 

[TractorTech]

I did a Massey pump not long ago. Pretty sure the bolt holes are blind holes.
The plate is there to take the wear of the impeller instead of it wearing the face of the block.
The gasket is pretty straight forward, no particular position to install. Are your sutfaces clean and smooth?

 

[used red MN]

Hello, looking for some advice and thoughts on why my new water pump is leaking. The water pump I replaced was not leaking but was making too much noise so I figured it was on its way out and as I had recently had to have the radiator repaired I thought I would replace the water pump. The pump I took off had a metal backing plate.(have enclosed a photo.) The pump and the gasket were from Allstate, a metal backing plate like the original was not offered or included. I placed the gasket on the pump first then the metal backing plate no sealants, installed and tightened the bolts good, put the radiator on etc. and it leaks from two of the bolts before even trying to start the tractor. Before I do this process again, I thought I would ask for recommendations and advice. Maybe I shouldn’t use the metal backing plate and should just try gasket only? Should I use a sealant? If so, what kind? Comments are welcome, thank you!

From what I see you need to turn the backing plate around and put the gasket between it and the pump. This will make the pump a sealed unit in so many words. The engine or front cover is just a mounting surface see how it is flat with no coolant transfer holes into the engine cooling jacket, that side does not need a gasket, it will just be metal to metal. The pump relies on the large hoses connected to it to move the fluid in and out.
Edit: Now reading closer I see you assembled it correctly the photo with it slid on the one bolt was only done for the purpose of the picture. I see the upper right bolt hole in your photo does not have threads out at the outer edge of it like the others. Did this bolt or all the bolts tighten down properly? Is the distance (thickness)the bolt pass through the same for all 4 bolts? If so the position shown likely requires a longer bolt compare the bolts is one longer? Figure out if this is an issue. Some will cringe here but I would use RTV on both sides of that gasket making sure it encircles the bolt holes. Just apply it in a thin layer a bit more than a film with your finger. Since you are having an issue with them leaking apply it to the threads of the bolts as well. Reinstall the pump and tighten it down. If to much RTV squeezes out wipe it off.

 

[danc1948]

Hello and thanks for your very informative replies. For starters, I did not know about blind holes and that’s what is on this tractor. And yes, for the sake of the picture I arranged the backing plate and gasket accordingly. There are four bolts on the pump, which cannot be removed unless the pulley is taken off. one is decidedly longer than the others,in order to place gasket and backing plate on. I use that one and angle the pump downward to get the hose on then push up. have added a new picture to show the bolts better also the backing plate and gasket. two things I noticed taking the photo,the center of the backing plate is actually broken where the dimple is, also when taking the picture, noticed it does not appear that the gasket judging by the faint grease outline was not touching the engine side everywhere. I can’t tell if there are threads missing on the longer bolt. I cleaned off surfaces as well as I could. I don’t know if it is relevant, but this is the second pump, the first was damaged in shipment and the long bolt was severely bent I called Allstate AG and they immediately sent me another pump. The box with that one was likewise badly damaged, but the long bolt that you see will screw in, but I don’t think it’s my imagination that it’s a little harder than the other bolts to go in, so I don’t know that it might be ever so slightly bent, but it does go in and tightens down and Allstate Ag was accommodating in all regards. so should I ditch the backing plate in as much as the unevenness of the broken dimple in the middle might be causing it to not seat properly. I did not realize the use of a sealant was not particularly recommended for water pump installation, but I was reaching for that solution before the forum comments. but if necessary, of course I would use it. please let me know what you think. Thx

 

[used red MN]

Some will cringe here but I would use RTV on both sides of that gasket making sure it encircles the bolt holes.

I only said that because a lot of the “tried and true” on here think RTV/silicone sealer it is the devils work. That’s because it is often applied to heavily and mushes out in blobs sometimes the internal excess comes loose and in the case of an engine crankcase gets sucked into the oil pump suction screen.
I don’t see the broken place that you are referring to on the plate. If it is not a break that goes through the plate I wouldn’t worry about it. I think you need that plate to keep the belt pulley alignment correct. Maybe apply a bit thicker layer of the RTV on the plate if it has pitting and irregularities in the sealing surface. Assuring it seals is above prettiness in my opinion.

 

[danc1948]

Yes sir thank you for the clarification on the sealant. I think I’m going to have to go that route and as you mentioned before I can put that same sealant on the threads. and under the bolt heads. if you blow up the second photograph that I posted you can plainly see the middle of the metal backing plate is lifted up. There was a lot of wear there but what reason I’m not sure. The only thing I wonder about is if the metal backing plate was an important feature a long time ago why is it not offered anymore? It’s not a terribly complex piece of material. I will have to pick up some of that sealant and go to work on it again in a day or two, if anyone thinks of anything else that might be pertinent, please let me know. Thank you very much.

 

[danc1948]

Used red I apologize I did not read a previous post of yours carefully enough and just now caught what you meant about the threads in the upper right hand hole thank you for that

 

[danc1948]

It has taken a while, but after several false starts and by using a suggested silicone sealant and finding a backing plate like the original I was able to get a new water pump on the 1972 Massey Ferguson 135 and all appears to be good so thank you for the help

 

[danc1948]

It has taken awhile but after several false starts and using a recommended silicone sealant and finding a backing plate like the original my 1972 Massey Ferguson 135 has a new water pump on with no leaks so thanks to the forum for the help