Ford 8n metal clanging sound

[ErikL97]

My ford 8n just recently started having a really loud clanging type sound, I have been working on the fuel issue with it tonight and the tractor turned off, so I went to restart the tractor it started making a bad metal-on-metal sound when pushing the starter button down.

I fix one issue and the next one arrives gonna have a brand new 8n after this . I hope it's nothing major but I feel like it is. I'm hoping it's just the starter. It'll crank and run perfectly fine, just when pressing the starter button is when the sound starts

 

[HarryVanderpool]

That metal-on-metal sound is likely just one of many downsides to making the 12-volt mistake.
You are very likely hearing the sound of the Bendix flying forward and grinding the teeth off the ring gear.
Very common problem with the 12-volt mistake.
If so, what to do?
Now every other time you go to start, and hear the grinding, you must turn off the key, Put the tractor in 4th gear, rock the tractor forward watching the fan to assure the engine rotated out of the damaged area, and try again to start.
But heres the GREAT news: If you forget to turn the key switch off and rock the tractor, you may get run over!!
That's why it's called the "12-volt mistake!"

 

[Ultradog MN]

My ford 8n just recently started having a really loud clanging type sound, I have been working on the fuel issue with it tonight and the tractor turned off, so I went to restart the tractor it started making a bad metal-on-metal sound when pushing the starter button down.

I fix one issue and the next one arrives gonna have a brand new 8n after this . I hope it's nothing major but I feel like it is. I'm hoping it's just the starter. It'll crank and run perfectly fine, just when pressing the starter button is when the sound starts

I can't help with the clanging. Been too long since I worked on an N.
I will try to offer a bit of encouragement tho.
Once you get the bugs worked out you'll have yourself a nimble, reliable little work horse that will do many tasks for you.
So keep at it and don't despair.
Lastly, any more, there are probably far more of those tractors that have been converted to 12V than there are original 6V ones left.
They are providing good service with less maintenance. 6V is fine but the primary reason for keeping one 6V is for "originality's sake" which is just a form of sentimentalism.

 

[showcrop]

I have a 960 that has had twelve volts to the starter for twenty three years and used regularly. I had it split two years ago and the ring gear was just as nice as you could want.

 

[Ed S.]

Lastly, any more, there are probably far more of those tractors that have been converted to 12V than there are original 6V ones left.
They are providing good service with less maintenance. 6V is fine but the primary reason for keeping one 6V is for "originality's sake" which is just a form of sentimentalism.

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I left my '50 front mount 6V when I completely rebuilt it a few years after I bought it, and it's run fine that way for 25 years now (plus the 50 years prior to that). I have very rarely had issues with the ignition system in that time, so "maintenance" has been no more or less than if it were 12V. I didn't stay 6V for originality, but because it was working and I saw no reason to change just for the sake of change. Having driven a '64 Beetle (6V) as a daily in ATL for six years in the 1990s, I'm familiar with "clean, bright and tight," which is really all the maintenance you need other than occasional tuneups. Folks sometimes go 12V because they want to run other electrical equipment, and that makes perfect sense.

But I do totally agree that the 8N is an incredibly versatile piece of equipment, and I used mine for all kinds of work back when we were on the farm.

Back to the original question, the reason I rebuilt my tractor was that it started making a clunking noise while running. By the time I had pulled the hood and front axle for an engine rebuild, I discovered the noise was caused by a loose nut on the crank pulley (or maybe the loose nut behind the wheel?). At that point, I decided to go ahead and do a full rebuild. However, Erik's description suggests his problem only happens while energizing the starter, so it makes sense to start poking around there.

Pulling the starter would probably be a good idea to look for evidence of touching or binding (bright wear spots on the bendix or flywheel), but if you've never done it before, be aware that the bendix extends past the flywheel (rear of the tractor side), and you must hold your tongue just right in order to angle the starter properly to extract it past the flywheel out the hole. Patience is a virtue! Also resist the desire to rotate, push or pull the bendix once out. If you accidentally make it retract, you have a real project on your hands to put it back in "rest position."

HOWEVER… before you pull the starter, since you say the tractor runs without making the noise, maybe get a helper to push the starter button for you while you use a "mechanic's stethoscope" to try to pinpoint the location of the noise. Any 2-3' wooden or metal rod will do – just hold one end up to your good ear, and press the other end to various locations on the tractor, such as on the starter housing, etc.. The sound where you touch the tractor will be magnified in your ear.

My tractor has a fan shroud, and unless it's bent just right at the bottom, the fan touches it at certain RPMs, making a tinny, clanking noise. I say that to say that your noise may be something else, so don't automatically assume it's the starter.

Good luck, and report back with what you discover.

 

[Eman85]

I'd pull the starter and take a look. If you keep trying it chasing the sound you might end up with the bendix broken off and in the bellhousing or something else broken.

 

[DanielW]

I also suggest pulling the starter and taking a look at the bendix. Common for something to happen to the bendix and cause some clanging/banging. Especially if it's the old-style/original bendix. Quick & cheap fix to swap it out to a new-style bendix.

I don't think an N really benefits from a 12V conversion compared to some other models: They had such small displacement and lower compression that the 6V does fine as long as all the connections are good (unlike, say, our Super W6: It was always such a large engine with so much stroke & compression that the original 6V system never really cut it). But converting your N to 12V shouldn't have hurt anything. Loads of folks have converted their N's to 12V and are getting along just dandy. The preference would be to put on a 12V starter when you do the conversion, so that the 6V one doesn't fly out quite so hard and hurt the bendix & flywheel. But even that's not strictly necessary: Lots of folks run their 6V starters with 12V just dandy. Might be a smidge harder on the ring gear teeth after many years of use. But not enough to worry about. It's not as though ring gear teeth last forever with 6V systems either.

 

[ErikL97]

If something is broken in the bell housing would you have to split the tractor to fix that? Or go down in the steering column area, I hope nothing has broken off abs everything is intact with the ring gear.

 

[Non-farmer]

@ErikL97 - Ultradog and Daniel have posted level-headed assessments. It seems to me that the only people (person?) who call 12 volts a mistake are those who are clinging to the past. Certainly my decision to convert my N to 12 volts, within a week or 2 of my acquisition of it 20 or so years ago, was no mistake.

 

[DanielW]

If something is broken in the bell housing would you have to split the tractor to fix that? Or go down in the steering column area, I hope nothing has broken off abs everything is intact with the ring gear.

That would depend on what''s broken. Hopefully you wouldn't have to split. But pulling the starter, checking the bendix, and looking through the starter hole would be a first step.

You can' t get into the bellhousing via the steering column. Not that it matters: The N's are superbly easy to split. You can easily have one split in a couple hours or less - you just need a second hand to lift the tank/hood off.

 

[ChrisFromCLE]

….- you just need a second hand to lift the tank/hood off.

Or ratchet straps and a chain fall or come along… I’ve never been smart enough to do it this way but saw photos of it on this forum. Learn something every day.

Chris from CLE

 

[GChief]

you just need a second hand to lift the tank/hood off.

and I have been doing it myself, by hand, everytime.
Really an easy thing, for now.

Good to know

 

[Ultradog MN]

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I left my '50 front mount 6V when I completely rebuilt it a few years after I bought it, and it's run fine that way for 25 years now (plus the 50 years prior to that). I have very rarely had issues with the ignition system in that time, so "maintenance" has been no more or less than if it were 12V. I didn't stay 6V for originality, but because it was working and I saw no reason to change just for the sake of change. Having driven a '64 Beetle (6V) as a daily in ATL for six years in the 1990s, I'm familiar with "clean, bright and tight," which is really all the maintenance you need other than occasional tuneups. Folks sometimes go 12V because they want to run other electrical equipment, and that makes perfect sense.

But I do totally agree that the 8N is an incredibly versatile piece of equipment, and I used mine for all kinds of work back when we were on the farm.

Back to the original question, the reason I rebuilt my tractor was that it started making a clunking noise while running. By the time I had pulled the hood and front axle for an engine rebuild, I discovered the noise was caused by a loose nut on the crank pulley (or maybe the loose nut behind the wheel?). At that point, I decided to go ahead and do a full rebuild. However, Erik's description suggests his problem only happens while energizing the starter, so it makes sense to start poking around there.

Ed, I dont want to restart the "voltage and EI wars" that many of us still remember.
No need disturb the sleep of the great ones - Dell, Bruce, JMOR, Zane, Llamas, TOTG and others who have left us.
There are two schools of thought, two ways of creating yer sparkies and keeping your battery charged.
I think one way is more versatile, more reliable. You may think it's the other.
I'm willing to concede that whatever keeps YOUR tractor running is the right one for you.

 

[Ed S.]

Ed, I dont want to restart the "voltage and EI wars" that many of us still remember.
No need disturb the sleep of the great ones - Dell, Bruce, JMOR, Zane, Llamas, TOTG and others who have left us.
There are two schools of thought, two ways of creating yer sparkies and keeping your battery charged.
I think one way is more versatile, more reliable. You may think it's the other.
I'm willing to concede that whatever keeps YOUR tractor running is the right one for you.

Wasn't trying to start an argument, just pointing out that a stock 6V system can work just as well as 12V when (either are) maintained. There's a legitimate use case for 12V conversions, and I'm not biased for or against them.

 

[ErikL97]

That would depend on what''s broken. Hopefully you wouldn't have to split. But pulling the starter, checking the bendix, and looking through the starter hole would be a first step.

You can' t get into the bellhousing via the steering column. Not that it matters: The N's are superbly easy to split. You can easily have one split in a couple hours or less - you just need a second hand to lift the tank/hood off.

I do have a new starter for my 8n, just hoping it will it not be a pain to remove. I should be out working on it this weekend, the only thing is I won't be able to move the tractor forward due to a hay baler in front of me.

 

[Eman85]

A few things to watch when removing the starter. First disconnect the battery, sounds simple many fail at the first step. Take the bolts off that hold the oil filter in place, it will allow a little more room. When you remove the 2 bolts they are also what holds the starter together, it will come apart in your hands as you wrestle to get the bendix past the flywheel. If it comes apart don't panic, learning how to put it back together is a good lesson. The "new" starter you bought probably isn't as good as your old starter with a new bendix but it's your choice. If you install the new starter save your old starter, it is rebuildable.

 

[ErikL97]

A few things to watch when removing the starter. First disconnect the battery, sounds simple many fail at the first step. Take the bolts off that hold the oil filter in place, it will allow a little more room. When you remove the 2 bolts they are also what holds the starter together, it will come apart in your hands as you wrestle to get the bendix past the flywheel. If it comes apart don't panic, learning how to put it back together is a good lesson. The "new" starter you bought probably isn't as good as your old starter with a new bendix but it's your choice. If you install the new starter save your old starter, it is rebuildable.

Alright thanks, and yes I was gonna get the old one rebuilt, to keep for a spare in the future if I ever have to change it out again. I do keep all the old parts.

 

[Kondoge]

I fix one issue and the next one arrives gonna have a brand new 8n after this .

I feel the same way about my 9N 8N mutt. When things get old they have repeated issues that need attention, these issues become way worse if the machine was neglected for a long time.

 

[Jim.ME]

Wasn't trying to start an argument, just pointing out that a stock 6V system can work just as well as 12V when (either are) maintained. There's a legitimate use case for 12V conversions, and I'm not biased for or against them.

In another thread, he posted his had been converted to 12 volts when he got it.

6 or 12, when either is working correctly, they are fine.

 

[Jim in LA]

My ford 8n just recently started having a really loud clanging type sound, I have been working on the fuel issue with it tonight and the tractor turned off, so I went to restart the tractor it started making a bad metal-on-metal sound when pushing the starter button down.

I fix one issue and the next one arrives gonna have a brand new 8n after this . I hope it's nothing major but I feel like it is. I'm hoping it's just the starter. It'll crank and run perfectly fine, just when pressing the starter button is when the sound starts

Maybe that's what chewed the teeth off the flywheel of the '51 I bought. Getting a new ring gear required machine shop. New 12 volt starter slams into the ring gear real good . My '49 is still 6V. Turns over slow and then fires right off.