Well pump popping breaker

[rrlund]

I'll get right to it, then elaborate. Quarter to twelve last night, no water. 220v submersible pump. I reset it and it popped again right away. Tried again, it went MAYBE 3-4 seconds and blew again. Reset it again and it's still going. What would pop it that quick and then fix itself?

Now the background. PLEASE READ the details before replying with things we've already done. The trouble started the day after Thanksgiving. The breaker had popped when I got up that morning. I reset it and it was fine. It did it the next few days, then was OK until just after Christmas. Did it again for a few mornings, so I called the well guy. He checked everything. He used a meter to check the pump and said everything was within tolerances. We figured it had to be the underground wire getting wet then drying out, so we laid a wire on top of the ground. I put it in conduit three weeks ago and covered it up. Trouble free for almost three months until last Friday morning. Popped overnight, same thing again overnight that night, popped again Saturday morning.

Then, like I said, last night, quarter to twelve, popped again and did it again twice as soon as I reset it. Could there have been something hanging up in the pump that caused it to lock up, then break loose when I reset it again in fairly fast succession?

EDIT. I changed the breaker and pressure switch before I even called the well guy in December. Square D 30 amp. While I'm remembering it, new bladder tank too. They changed that the day after laying the new wire on top of the ground. We had inflated it just after Thanksgiving, but it had lost a lot of pressure again by Christmas. We thought the frequent starts might be overheating the breaker.

 

[Red 56 Binder]

I would change the breaker .

 

[rrlund]

I would change the breaker .

Did that too, and the pressure switch. I forgot to mention those two details.

 

[drsportster]

Breakers can go bad Or some conductive crud blew of last short

 

[Jaden]

If the motor uses start capacitor and switch, the switch can stick open sometimes.

 

[Steve in VA]

I'll get right to it, then elaborate. Quarter to twelve last night, no water. 220v submersible pump. I reset it and it popped again right away. Tried again, it went MAYBE 3-4 seconds and blew again. Reset it again and it's still going. What would pop it that quick and then fix itself?

Now the background. PLEASE READ the details before replying with things we've already done. The trouble started the day after Thanksgiving. The breaker had popped when I got up that morning. I reset it and it was fine. It did it the next few days, then was OK until just after Christmas. Did it again for a few mornings, so I called the well guy. He checked everything. He used a meter to check the pump and said everything was within tolerances. We figured it had to be the underground wire getting wet then drying out, so we laid a wire on top of the ground. I put it in conduit three weeks ago and covered it up. Trouble free for almost three months until last Friday morning. Popped overnight, same thing again overnight that night, popped again Saturday morning.

Then, like I said, last night, quarter to twelve, popped again and did it again twice as soon as I reset it. Could there have been something hanging up in the pump that caused it to lock up, then break loose when I reset it again in fairly fast succession?

EDIT. I changed the breaker and pressure switch before I even called the well guy in December. Square D 30 amp. While I'm remembering it, new bladder tank too. They changed that the day after laying the new wire on top of the ground. We had inflated it just after Thanksgiving, but it had lost a lot of pressure again by Christmas. We thought the frequent starts might be overheating the breaker.

I've seen the power line in the well to the pump wear through. Pump torque occasionally results in dead short but intermittently.

 

[rustred]

from the sounds of things the submersible pump motor is done.

 

[joeysmith]

Motor may have a bad spot causing it to pull more amps when trying to start
Capacitor as said if it has one
Pump may be binding if its older or you have a lot of sand in the water

Voltage has been checked an within specs?
It seem to coincide with any other high amp draw appliances running?

Lights or anything in the house been acting different?

If you can next time it happens unhook the wires at the well head an see if it still trips

Just spitballing some ideas....

 

[rrlund]

Motor may have a bad spot causing it to pull more amps when trying to start
Capacitor as said if it has one
Pump may be binding if its older or you have a lot of sand in the water

Voltage has been checked an within specs?
It seem to coincide with any other high amp draw appliances running?

Lights or anything in the house been acting different?

If you can next time it happens unhook the wires at the well head an see if it still trips

Just spitballing some ideas....

It almost always happens overnight when we're sleeping. 120 head of cattle drinking, but they don't even drink as much at night as they do during the day. He checked more than voltage. I don't know a thing about those electrical testers like he used, but he had the power off and was testing resistance or something, I don't know. He does this for a living, so I trust him to know what he's talking about. At this point, the pump is the only thing that isn't new. As far as I can remember, there's only been once that it tripped during the day. A Sunday afternoon when we were just sitting around not doing anything that used any water, other than cattle drinking. It's like something happens if it's not starting and stopping every so often. If it had been off again this morning and had tripped the breaker on the first attempt, I was going to unhook it at the pressure switch, but it was still going alright.

One night in December when it was acting up, and this was before we laid the new wire, I shut the cattle out so they couldn't drink, so the pump didn't run at all overnight. It didn't pop, but we replaced the wire anyway.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Carnac predicts you have a pump replacement in your future.

 

[RCP]

This is a crazy response, but we had a check valve on a submersible that would occasionally stick closed. The problem was very intermittent, and there was no rhyme or reason to it. Installed a new pump, new switch, new breaker, new wiring and it still did it. The second well guy said let's start over, he pulled the pump, tested the new pump NTF, installed the pump one joint at a time (threaded plastic line) and tested it after every joint. After installing a joint on top of the check valve there was no water, pulled it back apart and you could see where the ball was hanging up in the check valve. eliminated the check valve (there were 2 total). Went back together with the old pump and still no problems. The new pump was returned to first well guy, and he did not charge for the pump or the service call.

 

[JD Dave]

My gut feeling is if you've checked everything ABOVE ground with positive results, then the problem is UNDERGROUND. Pump, wiring into the well, caoacitor and connections. How old is the pump?

 

[rrlund]

My gut feeling is if you've checked everything ABOVE ground with positive results, then the problem is UNDERGROUND. Pump, wiring into the well, caoacitor and connections. How old is the pump?

2011. They replaced it after a lightening strike. I made it through a Sunday without having to call and have them put in another new one anyway. I just don't know why it almost always starts acting up on a Friday and happens after dark. It sounds like I'm making it up.

 

[JD Dave]

So the pump is a 2011 and 15 years old? I've gotten 20+ years out of a pump but you just never know. The bottom line is there's a short somewhere. A good well pump guy should have a valid opinion.

 

[buickanddeere]

How many amps peak inrush while starting ? How many amps at low pressure and at high pressure .
I agree with the others that it is time to pull the pump and replace it . With a three wire pump .

 

[scootergmc]

Do you have any place where spiders, bugs, webs, etc., can get to any exposed wiring? I assume you've traced it all... I ask because I had that problem once- hidden in my pressure switch.

 

[sms]

Had a similar problem once, pulled the pump took it to the wholesaler, technician tested it in my presence and didn't like the current draw, it was a little high. Owner just happened to walk through and said "that is fine those numbers are only approximate". Said use new wire. Put pump back and it failed again right away. Pulled it again and the technician took it apart, pump bushing was worn and would bind under proper conditions. New pump, same motor and put it back in the well. Then had a new problem, I had cut the insulation on the new wire when I pulled it the second time so had to pull it again to repair wire. 200 foot deep I was pulling it by hand by myself.

 

[rrlund]

Do you have any place where spiders, bugs, webs, etc., can get to any exposed wiring? I assume you've traced it all... I ask because I had that problem once- hidden in my pressure switch.

Literally everything has been apart or replaced in the last four months except the pump. It was still working alright this morning. I got thinking last night, the wires from the house are solid, the ones going down in the well are braided. Each side of the pressure switch has one of each. When I ran the wire through conduit three weeks ago, I had to take it off of the switch. When I did, I took all of them off, unscrewed the switch and took it off to put stronger antifreeze in it. I wonder if I got one of the tiny little braid pieces against something that shorted it out somehow and flipping the breaker back on like I did Saturday night burned it off?

 

[joeysmith]

When I did, I took all of them off, unscrewed the switch and took it off to put stronger antifreeze in

Curious where you put the antifreeze or what ya mean there
All the switches im familiar with hook directly to the potable water side

 

[Fritz Maurer]

There is a little gizmo that your power company can temporarily install between your meter setting and the meter. It records all electrical flow , normal and odd situations.

They did this to my house because I had a number of burnt motors / slow starters and other intermittent issues that seemed like a bad ground.

They discovered that the transformer on the pole was bad. After the new transformer was installed, my 1930s Westinghouse refrigerator in the shop started and spun up faster than I had ever heard it.