1955 300U--Tractor wont move-Engine kills when clutch realeased

[BoomerGoomer]

Hello all, a friend of mine 50 miles away called me up and said his 300U was idling during warm-up, the he said the tractor made a squealing sound and died. THe engine will crank with clutch depressed but will not crank with the clutch engaged. He's calling me because I run my own automotive shop and have Farmall H's and M's. I have no experience in utility Farmalls. I do know that he was very lazy about keeping his hydraulic lube in the pump as it waould leak out frequently. Question...Can a seized hydraulic pump lock up the driveline as, again, it will not crank with the clutch engaged. He swears he has to split the tractor to fix this. I dont think so. I'll be the one putting on the miles to fix this.

 

[JOCCO]

Yes a seized pump could cause major issues. The 300u is similar to a 300 and Farmall h/m in reality just a utility version. From what you are telling me is it sounds like a clutch or tranny seized up. Starters can cause issues too. All kind of things you can do, but at 50 miles away its going to be hard.

 

[BoomerGoomer]

Thank you for the response. I believe the issue is somewhere from the trans input shaft back. I just did speak with him and asked him to try and jack up the rear end to see if he could rotate the rear tire assemblies freely, maybe thayt might give an indication regarding the output shaft and rearward...he has the manual for it (which I strongly advised him to get). He really doesn't know how to interpret anything in the manual so he is making the trip to me with it so I can digest what might be involved. The starter is ok as it cranks just fine with the clutch disengaged. I know all too well about the dreaded stuck bendix on my 4 farmalls. (2 m's and 2 H's).

 

[JOCCO]

Thank you for the response. I believe the issue is somewhere from the trans input shaft back. I just did speak with him and asked him to try and jack up the rear end to see if he could rotate the rear tire assemblies freely, maybe thayt might give an indication regarding the output shaft and rearward...he has the manual for it (which I strongly advised him to get). He really doesn't know how to interpret anything in the manual so he is making the trip to me with it so I can digest what might be involved. The starter is ok as it cranks just fine with the clutch disengaged. I know all too well about the dreaded stuck bendix on my 4 farmalls. (2 m's and 2 H's).

Hopefully there will be better Farmall people chiming in here to help you. Jacking up is good also you did not say if it had a torque amp?

 

[Farmalldude45]

Hopefully there will be better Farmall people chiming in here to help you. Jacking up is good also you did not say if it had a torque amp?

"Squealing sound and then died" sounds like a bearing sized in the transmission. Another possibility is in 2 gears at once, but this normally happens during shifting. Can't see it occurring while setting idling. Hydraulic pump isn't a factor. It's driven from cam gear train. If it's locked up, there isn't anything going to move. At least under It's own power.

 

[BoomerGoomer]

Hopefully there will be better Farmall people chiming in here to help you. Jacking up is good also you did not say if it had a torque amp?

Yes it does have a T/A...He aquired the tractor ten years ago a couple of miles from my shop. It was brought here for me to look it over and replace some bad seals a couple of real bad hydraulic hoses, and change out fluids. The tractor does have an IH loeader on it. I have thought that T/A's would just slip, but if it has a planetary gearset, that might be a probem. He told me the T/A was pulled back (engaged) when the tractor just squealed and died while warming up...no lurching forward or anything. The only things rotating from the clutch back in neutral, would be the input shaft, countershaft,...and the T/A. Silly me, I forgot the pump is engine mounted...turning 65 y.O. has it's drawbacks sir. I'm really waiting for his Service Manual, but any experienced advise is always appreciated.

 

[JOCCO]

Yes it does have a T/A...He aquired the tractor ten years ago a couple of miles from my shop. It was brought here for me to look it over and replace some bad seals a couple of real bad hydraulic hoses, and change out fluids. The tractor does have an IH loeader on it. I have thought that T/A's would just slip, but if it has a planetary gearset, that might be a probem. He told me the T/A was pulled back (engaged) when the tractor just squealed and died while warming up...no lurching forward or anything. The only things rotating from the clutch back in neutral, would be the input shaft, countershaft,...and the T/A. Silly me, I forgot the pump is engine mounted...turning 65 y.O. has it's drawbacks sir. I'm really waiting for his Service Manual, but any experienced advise is always appreciated.

Anything could potentially do it just a weeding out process. May come down to splitting it anyway.

 

[used red MN]

Thank you for the response. I believe the issue is somewhere from the trans input shaft back. I just did speak with him and asked him to try and jack up the rear end to see if he could rotate the rear tire assemblies freely, maybe thayt might give an indication regarding the output shaft and rearward...he has the manual for it (which I strongly advised him to get). He really doesn't know how to interpret anything in the manual so he is making the trip to me with it so I can digest what might be involved. The starter is ok as it cranks just fine with the clutch disengaged. I know all too well about the dreaded stuck bendix on my 4 farmalls. (2 m's and 2 H's).

Hello Dagger, welcome to YT! The hydraulic pump on the x00 series is driven off of the engine camshaft, so releasing the clutch would not free the engine if the pump seized. It sounds to me like something happened to the bearings on the trans input shaft or something in the TA. He could start by taking of the plates on the top and bottom of the clutch/TA section to see if he could see the problem. Plate 21 in the linked manufacturers parts catalog. CNHI IH 300U parts catalog I am more familiar with the row crop models, I think it is quite a chore to pull that top cover on a utility with the steering box setting right there. If you arrow right in the linked page 3 times you’ll get to the TA drive train diagram. It would probably be pretty trick for someone to make any sense of it if they haven’t had one open. Splitting the tractor is very likely in their future if they want to repair it.

 

[BoomerGoomer]

Hello Dagger, welcome to YT! The hydraulic pump on the x00 series is driven off of the engine camshaft, so releasing the clutch would not free the engine if the pump seized. It sounds to me like something happened to the bearings on the trans input shaft or something in the TA. He could start by taking of the plates on the top and bottom of the clutch/TA section to see if he could see the problem. Plate 21 in the linked manufacturers parts catalog. CNHI IH 300U parts catalog I am more familiar with the row crop models, I think it is quite a chore to pull that top cover on a utility with the steering box setting right there. If you arrow right in the linked page 3 times you’ll get to the TA drive train diagram. It would probably be pretty trick for someone to make any sense of it if they haven’t had one open. Splitting the tractor is very likely in their future if they want

Hello Dagger, welcome to YT! The hydraulic pump on the x00 series is driven off of the engine camshaft, so releasing the clutch would not free the engine if the pump seized. It sounds to me like something happened to the bearings on the trans input shaft or something in the TA. He could start by taking of the plates on the top and bottom of the clutch/TA section to see if he could see the problem. Plate 21 in the linked manufacturers parts catalog. CNHI IH 300U parts catalog I am more familiar with the row crop models, I think it is quite a chore to pull that top cover on a utility with the steering box setting right there. If you arrow right in the linked page 3 times you’ll get to the TA drive train diagram. It would probably be pretty trick for someone to make any sense of it if they haven’t had one open. Splitting the tractor is very likely in their future if they want to repair it.

Thank you for the reply AND the link to the illustration. I too am more familiar with row crop tractors. I should have remembered the hyd. pump was engine mounted, as I converted 2 of my tractors from the lift-all to engine driven pump...I had a "senior moment" haha. I spoke with the owner again and brought up possible lube starvation, but he adamantly states his fluid levels are full. have you heard of a T/A siezing? I would think that the engine would tear it up. Gotta be input shaft or countershaft issues if the owner can rotate the rear axles in neutral...if not, maybe an output shaft issue too. Thanks for the illustration as it looks like it might be tractor splittin' time. I'm south of RST. MN.

 

[Mrfred54]

Has he tried it with the TA handle in high. (Handle forward) That would eliminate the planetary gears, as the TA assembly would turn as a whole. I believe the battery is directly under the steering wheel on this model.Another possibility, remove the battery and under the battery tray there is a small tin cover with four bolts. This is a dry housing where the TA clutch is. Have seen the pressure plate come apart and lock things up.

 

[rustred]

why in the world would a person leave the TA engaged. Push the lever ahead and see what happens. I also have hear that squeal on a bad TA when engaging it. Leave that handle alone.

 

[used red MN]

there is a small tin cover with four bolts. This is a dry housing where the TA clutch is.

That cover is number 19 in my link in reply 8.

 

[JOCCO]

Dagger much more common for a TA to slip in low range. Of course anything is possible. No not common to see one locked up.

 

[BoomerGoomer]

Dagger much more common for a TA to slip in low range. Of course anything is possible. No not common to see one locked up.

That's what I always thought...Thank you for your response...Thanks everybody.

 

[used red MN]

That's what I always thought...Thank you for your response...Thanks everybody.

I was a bit surprised by the reply that told you to leave the TA lever forward as if it were a major no no to have it back, although there is no harm in trying operation with it forward. If something locks up in the planetary section of the TA the whole unit will just spin as one piece as it does in Direct TA when the 7” dry clutch is engaged. Short of the one way sprague clutch at the back having a major failure and locking up it should still spin with the clutch out. Not sure if you know or realize this but the outer “pressure plate” section of the TA clutch sets stationary when the tractor is in TA Lo or reduction with the lever back. It is connected to the rotating portion of the TA that is locked from turning by the one way clutch.

 

[JOCCO]

I was a bit surprised by the reply that told you to leave the TA lever forward as if it were a major no no to have it back, although there is no harm in trying operation with it forward. If something locks up in the planetary section of the TA the whole unit will just spin as one piece as it does in Direct TA when the 7” dry clutch is engaged. Short of the one way sprague clutch at the back having a major failure and locking up it should still spin with the clutch out. Not sure if you know or realize this but the outer “pressure plate” section of the TA clutch sets stationary when the tractor is in TA Lo or reduction with the lever back. It is connected to the rotating portion of the TA that is locked from turning by the one way clutch.

Barring aside the unusual I highly doubt the converter is bad minus a low range failure. And i do agree leave it alone in high range it is not a toy.

 

[used red MN]

Barring aside the unusual I highly doubt the converter is bad minus a low range failure. And i do agree leave it alone in high range it is not a toy.

“Converter”? did the wrong word drop in there? Oh you’re a “I fear the IH TA” guy! On the farm we had 3 IH tractors with mechanical TAs and a Massey 1080 with a Multi-power. We never followed the “limit the use of those or they will break” idea. Two of them were a Farmall 300 and 350. Almost every time you got on and shifted in gear you pulled back the TA, started it moving in Lo TA and then shifted to Direct. And if the Lo/reduction gear moved the tractor in a more appropriate speed for the task we would run it all day that way. When the TA had a problem it would get torn down and fixed. To us they were a wear item just like rear tractor tires.

 

[rustred]

well most of them old style ta tractors have nonworking TA's it dont hurt a thing to keep using the tractor in direct drive. that is why i posted that. why do u need a ta for driving around with a tractor. ??? the reason that thing was designed was for field work on a heavy pull it eliminated stopping to shift to a lower gear in a hard pull then shifting back again. that was the design of it. plus they had to be kept adjusted or the main trans was hard to shift. i really dont know waht all the hype is about having a working TA on these old tractors. no way were you to be plowing or tilling all day long using the torque amplifier ,.. as the word describes... its a torque amplifier when you running out of engine power.

 

[JOCCO]

“Converter”? did the wrong word drop in there? Oh you’re a “I fear the IH TA” guy! On the farm we had 3 IH tractors with mechanical TAs and a Massey 1080 with a Multi-power. We never followed the “limit the use of those or they will break” idea. Two of them were a Farmall 300 and 350. Almost every time you got on and shifted in gear you pulled back the TA, started it moving in Lo TA and then shifted to Direct. And if the Lo/reduction gear moved the tractor in a more appropriate speed for the task we would run it all day that way. When the TA had a problem it would get torn down and fixed. To us they were a wear item just like rear tractor tires.

Yes probably wrong word. I have rebuilt quite a few of them. Around me later years they were used as a toy and not used as intended as rusted red said.

 

[DonO-MN]

frozen water in the tranny/rear end???