FEL Hydraulic issue

[keljan11]

Hey all,
Sorry about long post
Have a MF 265, with a FEL. Last winter I was about to start plowing snow. As it was cold, I let the tractor warm up about 10 min. I exercised the fel bucket a few times as well as the 3ph. As I had stopped to open a gate, I had set the bucket down to stop it from rolling away. When I got back in, went to raise the bucket, and it came up about 8", then the control lever kicked back in my hand. I did manage to raise it, by pulling lever back hard and was able to finish plowing, and shut it off.
Yesterday, similar thing happened, lifted the bucket by pulling the lever hard. The bucket tilt and 3ph works as normal

Could there be an air lock, or a ram seal letting air into the system on the lifting rams?

 

[Jim.ME]

Hey all,
Sorry about long post
Have a MF 265, with a FEL. Last winter I was about to start plowing snow. As it was cold, I let the tractor warm up about 10 min. I exercised the fel bucket a few times as well as the 3ph. As I had stopped to open a gate, I had set the bucket down to stop it from rolling away. When I got back in, went to raise the bucket, and it came up about 8", then the control lever kicked back in my hand. I did manage to raise it, by pulling lever back hard and was able to finish plowing, and shut it off.
Yesterday, similar thing happened, lifted the bucket by pulling the lever hard. The bucket tilt and 3ph works as normal

Could there be an air lock, or a ram seal letting air into the system on the lifting rams?

From your posts about this same problem back in December, I think it would be good if you post some pictures of what you have for levers and the PTO lever cover where it is mounted. I think the general thought back then was you have the loader hooked to the auxiliary hydraulic system, not the three point system. Time to find out for certain to help you properly.

 

[keljan11]

From your posts about this same problem back in December, I think it would be good if you post some pictures of what you have for levers and the PTO lever cover where it is mounted. I think the general thought back then was you have the loader hooked to the auxiliary hydraulic system, not the three point system. Time to find out for certain to help you properly.

Thank you for the reply. I wasn't sure if I had posted here last winter. Pictures of the connections to the levers will be a little difficult, but will take today anyways. (I have the old ROPS cab, and everything is buried underneath the seat).

 

[Jim.ME]

Thank you for the reply. I wasn't sure if I had posted here last winter. Pictures of the connections to the levers will be a little difficult, but will take today anyways. (I have the old ROPS cab, and everything is buried underneath the seat).

Even a picture showing the levers themselves. Do you have a total of four to the right of the seat? Two on the quadrant for the three-point hitch and two more between those and the seat?

If you click on your username up top you will see how many messages you have posted. Click on that number and it will show them to you from newest to oldest so you can see what you have posted before.

 

[keljan11]

The lever closest to the seat raises the bucket, next to it is the bucket tilt. Beside them is the 3ph lever. Believe the hoses on the left are for raising, the right are for the tilt. (This is a MF 236 FEL)

 

[keljan11]

Even a picture showing the levers themselves. Do you have a total of four to the right of the seat? Two on the quadrant for the three-point hitch and two more between those and the seat?

If you click on your username up top you will see how many messages you have posted. Click on that number and it will show them to you from newest to oldest so you can see what you have posted before.

Jim.ME. Just posted some (poor) pics as you asked. Hopefully they will help you see how the hydraulics are piped

 

[Jim.ME]

IF, you had a valve mounted on the right front corner of the rockshaft cover it would be an auxiliary using the three-point system. To be clear and avoid confusion you need to tell people, your tractor has the true auxiliary hydraulic system. Your tractor's auxiliary hydraulic system has a second pump mounted on top of the three-point system pump, which supplies fluid to the valves you are using to operate your loader.

The lift couplers may not be seating properly and restricting the oil flow to and from the lift cylinders. Is lifting the boom the only thing that bothers, does it lower ok? The first thing to do is check the remote couplers. The hose at the upper left coupler doesn't look to be fully in. You can swap the bucket and lift hoses to the opposite sets of remotes as a test.

Do you have the service manual (MF # 14448768M--) for your 265? Do you have a pressure gauge (3000 psi or more)? Those auxiliary valves are supposed to have detent kickouts operated by pressure. If the hydraulic pressure is kicking the spool out too soon you could likely pull the lever hard enough to override it. You may need to do some pressure checking if it is not a coupler problem.

@Dieseltech may be along with other thoughts as well.

 

[keljan11]

Jim.ME. Just posted some (poor) pics as you asked. Hopefully they will help you see how the hydraulics are piped

IF, you had a valve mounted on the right front corner of the rockshaft cover it would be an auxiliary using the three-point system. To be clear and avoid confusion you need to tell people, your tractor has the true auxiliary hydraulic system. Your tractor's auxiliary hydraulic system has a second pump mounted on top of the three-point system pump, which supplies fluid to the valves you are using to operate your loader.

The lift couplers may not be seating properly and restricting the oil flow to and from the lift cylinders. Is lifting the boom the only thing that bothers, does it lower ok? The first thing to do is check the remote couplers. The hose at the upper left coupler doesn't look to be fully in. You can swap the bucket and lift hoses to the opposite sets of remotes as a test.

Do you have the service manual (MF # 14448768M--) for your 265? Do you have a pressure gauge (3000 psi or more)? Those auxiliary valves are supposed to have detent kickouts operated by pressure. If the hydraulic pressure is kicking the spool out too soon you could likely pull the lever hard enough to override it. You may need to do some pressure checking if it is not a coupler problem.

@Dieseltech may be along with other thoughts as well.

I've got a downloaded shop manual (from BestManuals). The bucket tilts fine, arms lower as usual. I pulled on all the hoses somewhat to see if any weren't seated okay. Yes, the boom lift is the only issue, but I can override it by pulling the lever hard. Don't have a gauge that high a pressure.
Have 3 med. appt's tomorrow in town and will see if I can locate one. When I get back I will switch all the hoses around also, and check to make sure the couplers don't have crap in them.
Will get back to the tractor day after tomorrow (an all day'er tomorrow in town)
Thanx for the suggestions.

 

[Jim.ME]

I cannot find one on that site that is correct for your tractor. Is there a reference number on the BestManual you have? Does it cover more than one model and if so what are they?

 

[gbsmith]

from the pictures it appears you are using the tractor remote levers to control the loader, with only one direction causing the dent to unlatch you have a restriction in that direction most likely one of the couplers has gone bad , try switching the lines at the couplers that operate the loader with ones for the bucket then try operating them, if the problem continues with the same valve in the same direction then your problem is most likely the female coupling on that side of the valve, if it moved to the other valve it is in one of the male hose couplers rare but it happens. i had a male hose coupling break the internal spring holding the check ball on a disc and it started out only allowing the disc to lift part of the way then the valve would release, after a couple of times doing that it locked and the cylinder won't raise but try to lower , i removed the male couplings thinking a piece of rubber from inside of one of the hoses had flaked off blocking one of the lines, it was actually one of the male coupler's internal spring had broken and spiraled it's way toward the hose this allowed the female coupler ball to act as a check valve. this was on a 255 also.

 

[keljan11]

from the pictures it appears you are using the tractor remote levers to control the loader, with only one direction causing the dent to unlatch you have a restriction in that direction most likely one of the couplers has gone bad , try switching the lines at the couplers that operate the loader with ones for the bucket then try operating them, if the problem continues with the same valve in the same direction then your problem is most likely the female coupling on that side of the valve, if it moved to the other valve it is in one of the male hose couplers rare but it happens. i had a male hose coupling break the internal spring holding the check ball on a disc and it started out only allowing the disc to lift part of the way then the valve would release, after a couple of times doing that it locked and the cylinder won't raise but try to lower , i removed the male couplings thinking a piece of rubber from inside of one of the hoses had flaked off blocking one of the lines, it was actually one of the male coupler's internal spring had broken and spiraled it's way toward the hose this allowed the female coupler ball to act as a check valve. this was on a 255 also.

So I switched the hoses from the loader and the bucket like you suggested. The loader lifts okay, albeit slow, but works. The bucket also works, but will have more tilt/lift if I really pull the levers back hard. Also, when I disconnected the upper left hose it came out easily when i just pulled the hose (with the other 3, I had to pull the female connector to release the male end.
Am going to switch them back to see if the issue returns.

 

[keljan11]

I cannot find one on that site that is correct for your tractor. Is there a reference number on the BestManual you have? Does it cover more than one model and if so what are they?

Attached a pic of the front page of the downloaded shop manual I've been using. It is a multi unit manual:
Models: MF255, MF265, MF270, MF275, MF290
It does give fairly good directions for repairs to a mechanic, (I guess not so much for someone wanting to discover what's wrong with discovered symptoms). IMHO

 

[Jim.ME]

Attached a pic of the front page of the downloaded shop manual I've been using. It is a multi unit manual:
Models: MF255, MF265, MF270, MF275, MF290
It does give fairly good directions for repairs to a mechanic, (I guess not so much for someone wanting to discover what's wrong with discovered symptoms). IMHO

That is the one I found on the site you mentioned and it is not the right one for your 265. You need the manual with the publication number I gave you. ACGOpubs shows 1448768M-- is for the 255, 265, and 275, it does not include the other models.

What does the index page look like?

 

[keljan11]

Hi Jim.ME
Attached are the 3 index pages. (There are 94 pages)

 

[Jim.ME]

That is just a cheap I & T aftermarket manual. Good for some things kind of like a Cliff’s Notes for your tractor. Get the actual Massey Ferguson manual I gave you the number for.