Replaced Steering Cylinders...bled...not working MF 245

[REB126]

Diesel
Two cylinders with two hoses each.
There's resistance in the steering wheel but no movement.
I've bled the system and the level isn't going down when I turn the wheel.
It makes straining noise when I turn the wheel.
The picture of the reservoir is old, It is clean now.

I haven't checked for leaks, but the fluid isn't going down.
The fluid is a little pink, not foamy per ce.

Any ideas?
Thanks,
Rodney

 

[gbsmith]

you have a hose hooked up wrong causing the cylinders to dead head, double check your connections the rod end of one cylinder connects to the piston end or barrel end of the other,

 

[REB126]

I wondered about that but they are hooked up the same way they came off.Plus there's another mf245 in the yard and they're hooked you the same way.

I also read somewhere that the steering cylinders are the same on both sides (not a right or left cylinder) and if that's so one cylinder is flipped 180 degrees thus hooking up the hoses to both top ports is hooking them up to a pull and push situation. (confirmation would be nice).

I can always disconnect all 4 hoses (off both cylinders) and turn the steering wheel to see 1) if the pump is working and 2) which hoses work together.

Thanks for your thought,
Rodney

 

[Jim.ME]

Jack the front wheels off the ground and see if it turns with no weight on it.

If not try swapping the hoses around on one cylinder, before you go deeper. It will only cost you a bit of time and eliminate the question of crossed hoses for certain.

 

[Massey240]

If it turns out the hoses are correct, then it could be you need a new power steering pump filter. If they become full they can stop the flow of fluid to such an extent that power steering stops working. This could explain why the fluid level hasn't gone down...not a leak but a blockage.
I assume you changed the cylinders because they were leaking fluid. If fluid can get out, then dirt can get in. Once in, it goes to the filter and can in time, block it.
As they are a paper type, it isn't recommended to wash them; just replace. Also clean out the old fluid from the pump and flush out the pipes with compressed air.
Also check that your turnbuckle is properly adjusted, though if you haven't touched the valve and it was set fine before changing the cylinders, this seems a very unlikely cause. Unless you have been messing with the valve, don't touch the turnbuckle as they are a nightmare to re-set.

 

[Massey240]

PS: If your fluid looks a bit pink and slightly milky, that probably means that moisture as well as dirt has been getting in, which would be expected if there has been a leak. This makes it even more important to remove all of the contaminated fluid and change the filter.

 

[REB126]

Update: I jacked up the front of the tractor and I could manually move the wheels to the left but not to the right. The wheels did the same thing when I used the steering wheel. The cylinders have full range of movement, so that's not the cause.

I'm getting the gaskets and filter for the power steering pump.

I'm wondering if new info would point to something with the hydrostatic steering pump (this is an orchard model).

One last thing, in all the pictures I've seen in the shop manual and parts catalogs, the reservoir filler hole is on the top of the reservoir. As you can see in my picture, mine is on the side. I'm concerned this means there's not enough hydraulic fluid in the pump.

I'm wondering if I should/could, upon reassembly, point the filler hole more up. I'd have to see what issue I'd have with filling it as it has a front loader on it and the FL gets in the way.

Thank you all,
Rodney

 

[Massey240]

If the power steering isn't working at all or isn't adjusted properly, you should still have full steering albeit without power assist.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that this is a power steering issue.
Can you turn both wheels, jacked up, with the engine off?
How long has it been since the tractor was steering properly ie before you changed the cylinders?
Has the tractor been sitting for a long time without being used?
What was the issue that caused you to change the cylinders?
Have you made any steering adjustments since it was last working properly?

 

[Massey240]

Pump filler position looks fine, same as mine.

 

[MKinON]

Update: I jacked up the front of the tractor and I could manually move the wheels to the left but not to the right. The wheels did the same thing when I used the steering wheel. The cylinders have full range of movement, so that's not the cause.

I'm getting the gaskets and filter for the power steering pump.

I'm wondering if new info would point to something with the hydrostatic steering pump (this is an orchard model).

One last thing, in all the pictures I've seen in the shop manual and parts catalogs, the reservoir filler hole is on the top of the reservoir. As you can see in my picture, mine is on the side. I'm concerned this means there's not enough hydraulic fluid in the pump.

I'm wondering if I should/could, upon reassembly, point the filler hole more up. I'd have to see what issue I'd have with filling it as it has a front loader on it and the FL gets in the way.

Thank you all,
Rodney

If you can turn the wheels with the wheel, it isn't the steering valve. The only way to steer the wheels is by moving fluid through the valve. Those things are pretty bullet proof. Question is, what have you done, or not done to the system that it required filling and bleeding in the first place? That's about the same location for the filler as on my 2 Masseys. The only way to change the filler position is to rotate the cover one bolt hole around. It shouldn't be at the top, since it needs some space for air, so the fluid can expand as it warms up. Once the system is full and bled, it doesn't need much extra fluid. Change the filter and confirm it's not something mechanical like locked up king pins. When was the last time the king pins were greased?

 

[MKinON]

If it turns out the hoses are correct, then it could be you need a new power steering pump filter. If they become full they can stop the flow of fluid to such an extent that power steering stops working. This could explain why the fluid level hasn't gone down...not a leak but a blockage.
I assume you changed the cylinders because they were leaking fluid. If fluid can get out, then dirt can get in. Once in, it goes to the filter and can in time, block it.
As they are a paper type, it isn't recommended to wash them; just replace. Also clean out the old fluid from the pump and flush out the pipes with compressed air.
Also check that your turnbuckle is properly adjusted, though if you haven't touched the valve and it was set fine before changing the cylinders, this seems a very unlikely cause. Unless you have been messing with the valve, don't touch the turnbuckle as they are a nightmare to re-set.

No turnbuckle on that model. Hydrostatic steering, no mechanical link.

 

[REB126]

Okay, I took the power steering pump out, got a new o ring and filter. Couldn't find a gasket to go between the PS pump and the engine so I made one.

I got the lid off and cleaned everything up but when I went to put it back on the o ring didn't want to stay around the pump body. I tried to keep it down as I put the cover/bowl on but it didn't work as it leaked like a sieve.

Anybody know the trick to getting it on? Should I pinch it so it sticks out beyond the bowl?

Thanks,
Rodney

 

[Massey240]

Okay, I took the power steering pump out, got a new o ring and filter. Couldn't find a gasket to go between the PS pump and the engine so I made one.

I got the lid off and cleaned everything up but when I went to put it back on the o ring didn't want to stay around the pump body. I tried to keep it down as I put the cover/bowl on but it didn't work as it leaked like a sieve.

Anybody know the trick to getting it on? Should I pinch it so it sticks out beyond the bowl?

Thanks,
Rodney

If you prized the bowl upwards instead of knocking it off sideways (as in the video above) you may have distorted the bowl edge enough that it has gone out of round. If so you may have to get another bowl or you could try some RTV on the lip first (de-grease both faces and O ring first....no oil can be present before it sets) to hold it in place and help create a seal and some more on top of the the O ring. Make sure RTV has had a chance to thoroughly dry before filling with fluid. This is a last resort measure and may or may not work.
Do not pinch it so that it sticks out. If it's too big to sit snugly on the lip (like it does in the video) it may be that you have the wrong O ring and it's too big. Check you part numbers for pump and O ring. There were at least two different pumps used on the 200 series, the round Barnes type and a larger kidney shaped pump which probably uses a larger O ring....it may be you got the kit for that pump instead.

If this is just about holding the O ring in place, the usual way to do this is for O rings which won't stay in place is a smear of Vaseline on the lip before you put the O ring on.

As for the gasket between the pump and the engine, if the correct gasket can't be obtained, then a smear of RTV on both faces (which must be completely clean, smooth and de-greased first....no metal scraper should be used...use either a plastic scraper or gasket dissolver), then it will usually work fine.

 

[MKinON]

There’s a groove around the pump housing where that o-ring sits, if my memory is right and that o-ring should sit in there snug or it’s too big. It should not be pinched out of that groove anywhere. As said, put some grease on it to help hold it in place and help the cover slide over it. You might have to push it back, or hold it a bit as you start the cover, just don’t use anything sharp enough to damage the surface of the o-ring.

 

[REB126]

FIXED!!!
So you remember I said that it turned to the left but not back to the right?
The driver side cylinder was the problem. I took it off and could not compress the detached cylinder.
Took it back to the place that rebuilt it and they put in a new seal and it works.
Put it all back together and Bob's your uncle.

Thank you for all your support. If not for this forum, I'd be lost.
Rodney