JD 410c rpm surging and dying

[EfiniMotorsport]

I was running my 410c yesterday and ran out of fuel (fuel gauge is off apparently). I replaced the filter and after a while was able to get it running again. I was running it today and after 30 mins or so the rpm started surging about 300-400 rpm. It did that for a few minutes then died. I checked power to the injection pump, check valve in the return line at the pump (glass ball is missing) and after a while of cranking was able to get it restarted. I let it idle for 30 mins with no issues and then ran it for about 45-60 mins then it started surging again. It even out after a few minutes then died again.
Yesterday I put 5 gallons in the a gas can and another 7 gallons from the pump today. Im hoping its not a failing injection pump but not sure what else it could be.

 

[Jim.ME]

When it starts surging, loosen the two screws holding the window on the side of the injection pump and let the fuel leak some. If it stays running it would indicate the return line is plugged (possible as someone removing the check ball has allow material to be sent into the return line). and the injection pump needs to be overhauled.

 

[EfiniMotorsport]

Should I try blowing out the return line too? When I was adding the first 5 gallons from the can I had the tank drain petcock open and even with a few gallons in the tank nothing came out.

 

[Jim.ME]

Should I try blowing out the return line too? When I was adding the first 5 gallons from the can I had the tank drain petcock open and even with a few gallons in the tank nothing came out.

You can blow it out; it needs to be clear. If running with the plate on the side of the pump loose lets it stay running it is a pump problem. Replacing the check valve fitting and making sure the return line is open are a couple of points to come before the repaired pump is put into service.

Putting that little fuel into an empty tank regularly is a good way to flush any trash in the tank to the filter. Running out of fuel may have partially plugged the filter.

 

[EfiniMotorsport]

I put a new filter on before I filled it up and started running it again. Figured it was less likely.to leak of there was nothing in the tank

 

[JD Dave]

If no fuel drained from the tank you have crud at the very bottom. This may be plugging the outlet line to the filter and injection pump. Suggest you clean the tank, lines and inspect/replace the filter. Diesels are very sensitive to any dirt whatsoever. The last thing you want is having any debris enter the injection pump.

 

[EfiniMotorsport]

I pulled what I think is the window on the side of the pump and there was no crud or anything inside. I did pull the return line and ran it for a few minutes before much of anything came out of the return from the pump. It was a few very small bubbles. I took off the triangle shaped cover just to the right the label. Ill order the check valve tomorrow.

 

[Jim.ME]

Did this surging start before you ran out of fuel, or only after you ran it out of fuel and got it restarted?

Does your 410C have the auxiliary fuel tank as well as the standard fuel tank? I doubt it does but decided to ask.

 

[EfiniMotorsport]

It only started after I ran out of fuel. Ran perfectly before then. It only has the one tank. I've got to figure out how to drain the 12 gallons of fuel out to flush the tank. How hard is it to get the tank out?

 

[Jim.ME]

Look it over. Pump or siphon what fuel you can out through the fill opening. Removing the fuel gauge sender gives some access. The shut off valve, fitting, and screen inside the tank should be removable without taking the tank out. I would start by doing those things and see if I could clean it that way.

 

[EfiniMotorsport]

OK. I'm replacing the fuel level sender anyway and also replacing the gauge. I added oil pressure and temp gauge as well as water temp. Fuel gauge is obviously off and hour meter on tach doesn't work so just replacing all of them. I'll drain it, clean it out and see what happens

 

[EfiniMotorsport]

With pulling that cover and seeing nothing inside does that mean the pump should be ok?

 

[Jim.ME]

Maybe, but some one removed the check ball, which makes me suspicious.

 

[EfiniMotorsport]

Do you have a part # for the check valve? I looked through all the diagrams on deere and searched but couldn't find it.

 

[EfiniMotorsport]

In case anyone's looking for the part number I called Deere and it's R36535. They don't show it on any of their diagrams.

 

[Jim.ME]

I should have checked the parts catalog before mentioning the check valve. It appears the 410C pump (DB2) does not require a check valve. A part number search in the parts catalogs for units using the RE20999 pump all show just a plain NPT to JIC adapter fitting to connect the return line to.

@Dieseltech can likely confirm this.

 

[EfiniMotorsport]

There is a check valve in there. I can see the spring but it's missing the ball. Deere did say there is one for it even though its not shown in any of the parts diagrams

 

[Dieseltech]

If the ball is missing it means most likely the weight has already started failing inside, it plugged the fitting so the quick fix is to knock the ball out. That pump CAME with a return ball check when new, and I would NOT run it much longer as is or you risk shearing off the retainer pins, then the head rotor WILL lock, SEIZE the head/rotor assembly, and BREAK the drive shaft. Deere does not show it because it's not their part, but a PUMP part.

 

[EfiniMotorsport]

Would there by any evidence inside the cover of the ring failing? Everything I've seen says there would be coffee ground looking stuff inside. The machine hasn't been run in years so I dont know how long it would have been run without it. It only shows 2k hours.
I just pulled the fuel feed line and barely got a trickle of fuel coming out. I blew it backwards and am not getting a good flow through the line. Got to drain the tank to clean it out and have a check valve coming Wednesday

 

[EfiniMotorsport]

If theres no sign the pump is failing im not going to spend a grand plus rebuilding it