How do I upgrade to electronic ignition? 1959 Farmall 140

[Jim.ME]

Documenting what I am ordering.

I called Pertronix and gave them my distributor number from the side of the distributor which is #353898R1. That is apparently the original.
And the tractor is 12V negative ground.

They gave me this kit and coil to order:

IHC 302xxx-534xxx Series 4 Cylinder Ignitor® Electronic Ignition Conversion - 12 Volt Negative Ground - PerTronix 1442

Electronic Ignition Conversion Kits to replace original mechanical points & troublesome factory ignition. Dependable, maintenance free, and easy to install. Never Replace Points Again. The Original Ignitor is ideal for restorations.

pertronixbrands.com

PerTronix 40611 Ignitor Epoxy Filled 40,000 Volt Ignition Coil with 3.0 Ohms Resistance in Black

Features & Benefits 40,000 volts. Available chrome plated or black for that "stock look". For use with inductive ignition systems. 1.5 or 3.0 Ohm primary resistance values available. Legal in all 50 states and Canada. (C.A.R.B. E.O. #D-57-21) The Flame Thrower canister coil is designed to mate...

pertronixbrands.com

$248.49


Then I called Steiner for the rest, which was cap, rotor, wires, and plugs:

https://www.external_link/ABC121-Distributor-Cap

https://www.external_link/IHS703-Rotor-Button

https://www.external_link/IHS4330-Spark-Plug-Wiring-Set-pre-assembled-with-90-degree-boots-4-cyl

https://www.external_link/ABC170-Spark-Plug-Autolite-

Steiner total $84.68

Total $333.17

Thanks for the help!

This site's software blocks links to many sites they see as competitors to the products they sell, such as the one you purchased from, which is why it shows "external_link" instead of the site's name. Can't blame them for not wanting to advertise for a competitor.

 

[bradleydavidgood]

Must have missed this!
View attachment 147816

Yea I forgot all about that. Thanks for the reminder!

 

[used red MN]

Yea I forgot all about that. Thanks for the reminder!

Just curious and maybe the YT parts folks would like to know this. Why did you choose Steiners? Do their results come up the most when you do a search for parts? Or?

 

[bradleydavidgood]

Just curious and maybe the YT parts folks would like to know this. Why did you choose Steiners? Do their results come up the most when you do a search for parts? Or?

I think I heard of them from the antique tractor forum, and also from the youtube video I posted earlier where the guy upgraded his 140.. I think he bought from them. And I've called them before and always got helpful people. I've never tried calling yesterday's tractor and wanted to try them, just completely forgot. And I completely ignore ads on forums so I never saw that giant thing at the bottom that says buy tractor parts here and all that.

 

[bradleydavidgood]

 

[soaked]

Hi bradleydavidgood,
Sorry its not running.
Im not a farmall guy, but have had many Fords with pertronix EI.
Your pertronix looks to be wired to the coil properly for a 3.0 ohm coil.

I dont see how the ignitor plate can go in backwards, so first thought is are the plug wires following the firing order on the cap in the same direction the rotor turns?
Can verify that compression pops out #1 spark plug hole, at the same instant the rotor points to where the #1 terminal location is. (Ignition OFF, Trans in NEUTRAL before engaging the starter)

 

[used red MN]

Can verify that compression pops out #1 spark plug hole, at the same instant the rotor points to where the #1 terminal location is.

The “loud pop” out of the exhaust probably indicates your ignition is producing at least some spark. I would verify this by pulling the coil wire out of the center of the distributor cap and hold it about an 1/8” away from some piece of metal like one of the bolts that holds the coil to the engine. Crank it and see if you have a constant snap, snap, snap of spark, if so proceed. It appears by your mark that you had the distributor out. As soaked is implying you need to verify that the internal shaft of the distributor is timed correctly. My version would have a little less going on than what soaked is suggesting but likely requires a helper. Pull number one spark and ideally you have a hand crank for your tractor and your helper can turn the engine while you feel for the push of compression in the spark hole. Once you feel that watch the timing pointer on the front crankshaft pulley and stop turning when the pulley mark aligns with zero. At that point the distributor rotor should be pointing at the terminal in the distributor cap for the number one cylinders spark plug wire. If it isn’t the distributor will need to be pulled out and reset in the correct spot which on a old Farmall like this is 1:00 to 1:30 clock position as viewed from the back or seat location. There is a possibility that you placed the spark plug wires in the cap 180 degrees off if you only went by the distributor cap hold down clip notches. In that case all that is needed is to correct that by installing plug wire one in the 1:30 o’clock terminal and work around clockwise 1-3-4-2.

 

[bradleydavidgood]

Hi bradleydavidgood,
Sorry its not running.
Im not a farmall guy, but have had many Fords with pertronix EI.
Your pertronix looks to be wired to the coil properly for a 3.0 ohm coil.

I dont see how the ignitor plate can go in backwards, so first thought is are the plug wires following the firing order on the cap in the same direction the rotor turns?
Can verify that compression pops out #1 spark plug hole, at the same instant the rotor points to where the #1 terminal location is. (Ignition OFF, Trans in NEUTRAL before engaging the starter)

Right, I don't think the ignitor plate can go in wrong. I asked Junior that and he said, no, it only went in one way.

And I also had instructed him to do one plug wire at a time, and then I asked him later if that's what he did and he said yes.

I'm not understanding what you mean by the next part about compression pops. Can you restate/elaborate on that please?

Thanks!

 

[used red MN]

I'm not understanding what you mean by the next part about compression pops. Can you restate/elaborate on that please?

That is in part why I added reply 27. I think basically a better way to accomplish what he is telling you is to pull the #1 spark plug and plug the wire back on it. Hold the metal plug base against a metal part on the engine or use one half of a jumper cable clamp the plug in one end and ground the other end to the engine. Crank it while holding a thumb or finger in the number one spark plug hole. Watch to see if the plug sparks in sync with the push of the compression stroke against your appendage.

 

[bradleydavidgood]

That is in part why I added reply 27. I think basically a better way to accomplish what he is telling you is to pull the #1 spark plug and plug the wire back on it. Hold the metal plug base against a metal part on the engine or use one half of a jumper cable clamp the plug in one end and ground the other end to the engine. Crank it while holding a thumb or finger in the number one spark plug hole. Watch to see if the plug sparks in sync with the push of the compression stroke against your appendage.

Thank you for that, got it, will do!

 

[300guy]

After a frustrating 3 months last summer with a Petronix system on my 300 since 2012 I am now a none Petronix user. I started having starting problems, no park, and dying in the field while using it. This spring we were doing some trouble shooting and thought the ignition switch was bad. There were times last summer and this spring when we were cranking it when the key was released, it would try to start. Put in a new switch and still nothing. Finally I said the heck with this, pulled the distributor and put in the old points and condenser. It started on the first rotation of the engine. I was a big proponent for that ignition system but now I won't put it back in for all the money in the world. I'm staying with my points and condenser!!!!!! I did find out that when I bought the system in 2012, a rep at the company told me to use solid wire spark plug wires. I have had then on since 2012!!! Now I find out this spring from a rep, they can destroy the module!!!!!???? I do not understand why, but they work great with my points!!!! Never thought I would be saying this!!!

 

[M. Doud]

After a frustrating 3 months last summer with a Petronix system on my 300 since 2012 I am now a none Petronix user. I started having starting problems, no park, and dying in the field while using it. This spring we were doing some trouble shooting and thought the ignition switch was bad. There were times last summer and this spring when we were cranking it when the key was released, it would try to start. Put in a new switch and still nothing. Finally I said the heck with this, pulled the distributor and put in the old points and condenser. It started on the first rotation of the engine. I was a big proponent for that ignition system but now I won't put it back in for all the money in the world. I'm staying with my points and condenser!!!!!! I did find out that when I bought the system in 2012, a rep at the company told me to use solid wire spark plug wires. I have had then on since 2012!!! Now I find out this spring from a rep, they can destroy the module!!!!!???? I do not understand why, but they work great with my points!!!! Never thought I would be saying this!!!

They make it pretty clear in the instructions what coil and wires to use with the module. My system has been installed at least that long and I remember these instructions from then, so seems like user error.

 

[300guy]

I still have my instruction sheet and it says nothing about the plug wires. It only talks about the key switch and the coil. I remember talking to the rep about my original coil and he said it would be fine to use.

 

[docmirror]

The Hall effect voltage is very low. There is a hi gain amp embedded in the potted block, but still - the system is susceptible to even small stray voltages. Most of us know from using an inductive timing light how much stray current is on hi tension ignition wires. Given the units are installed on ancient open tractors, with sketchy ground connections, and dirty dist caps and solid core wires which are famous for ignition noise, if I were to install one, I would use suppressor hi tension wires and insure my grounds were all very good and clean.

I've never used a kit on a tractor but I did put one on a small Fiat a while back and it did help the starting and it idled better. No change that I noticed in power or fuel consumption.

 

[300guy]

I would have changed the wires to carbon fiber wires IF they had told me when I talked to the reps. But I do not understand how it worked all those years to finally give me problems starting and such. I could run a jumper wire to the battery input wire from the battery and the tractor would fire right up and run without the jumper wire until I shut it off. Then the starting problems came back!!!!!! Or some days it would start right up an run all day. I would put in the she and the next time I went to start it, NOTHING!!!!! This spring when I had problems and a neighbor who was helping me thought the switch was the problem kinda like me last year. New switch this spring and NOTHING again. So that was when I had it with the ignition system and put the points pack in. Even though I loved the system al those years, I WILL NEVER PUT ANOTHER ONE IN!!!!!!!! I've had it with the system and can test the points system much easier!!!!!!!!!!

 

[soaked]

Hi 300guy, sorry for your frustrations
Did the pertronix tech have you do the positive ground bench test, and if so, did it fail?
My understanding was that when RFI ruins an ignitor its not intermittent, its a complete, total failure.
Trying to start after the key is released sure sounds like low voltage...

Best of luck

 

[300guy]

Yeah I had that and tested it to find out it was junk!!!!!!! I had 6.45 volts going to the module while cranking. Couldn't be any better than that.

 

[300guy]

Yes I tested grounds, battery connections, you name it, I tested it and everything tested fine. Only thing to test bad was the module. Only problem is it ran by a hot wire and then continued to run after it was removed. Then this spring NOTHING!!!!!! So as I say I have little faith in the system any more!!!!!!! And trouble shooting a points system only requires a test light!!!!!!!!!

 

[300guy]

Only question I ever had was what voltage setting should be used for the test? I used 2 volts DC, then 2 volts AC and there never was any reading on the meter!! Should the meter be an analog or a digital meter also???? All I had was a digital. It really doesn't mater because the module and reluctor or magnetic ring are in a bunch of pieces and I am happy with my ORIGINAL points that came with the tractor.

 

[soaked]

Ive used digital meters on 20 volt dc, and got the battery volts, then when switched either 0, or a fraction of a volt.
Glad you're happy without it, and
thanks for the extra info