2N Hydraulics stuck in up position

[SeagoSteve]

The lift goes straight to the top (too far in fact) as soon as pto is engaged. The touch control lever does nothing regardless of position. We removed the right side inspection cover, and the lift control forks are attached to the T on the control valve, but it won't budge even by hand. So, I reckon the valve is stuck, and the touch control lever is probably just slipping the friction disc? I'd be much obliged if someone could advise:

A: How to best break it loose?
B: Which way would the valve need to go, to make the lift go down? In or out?

Thanks in advance for your input!

 

[soaked]

Hi SeagoSteve,
Welcome!
Ive not worked on 9n,2n, but have some parts.
Intake ports are near the back of the bushing, and exhaust ports are farther in towards the middle of the pump.
So pulling the control valve out is the lower position.

 

[SeagoSteve]

Thanks for the info (and the welcome) Soaked. The guy we bought it from warned against pulling the lever too far back in it's travel and just operate it in the lower part. That makes me think something's mal-adjusted, and needs to be zeroed out somehow. We'll see if we can't unstuck it. And if rains do some "service manual meditation".

 

[Jim L WA]

Hi SeagoSteve, from your description it sounds like the control valve is stuck. It should move in and out easily, I believe that the valve goes in to drop the three point and out to raise.
I would drain the fluid, so you can see what your doing and then try to get something in there to lever or otherwise break it loose. Then replace the fluid with new. BTW an easy way to drain the sumps is to pull the PTO with a drain pan underneath. When the drain pan gets full just push the PTO back in and dump the drain pan, repeat.

 

[soaked]

See the small exhaust port, its about 1 3/8" from the back pump face. Pushing the valve IN, positions the full barrel of the valve against the port. So exhaust is blocked.
Pushing IN, positions the long taper on the valve at the large intake port so lift raises.

Pic only shows one intake and one exhaust port. There are corresponding ports on the opposite side of the bushing.

 

[SeagoSteve]

Hi SeagoSteve, from your description it sounds like the control valve is stuck. It should move in and out easily, I believe that the valve goes in to drop the three point and out to raise.
I would drain the fluid, so you can see what your doing and then try to get something in there to lever or otherwise break it loose. Then replace the fluid with new. BTW an easy way to drain the sumps is to pull the PTO with a drain pan underneath. When the drain pan gets full just push the PTO back in and dump the drain pan, repeat.

Thanks Jim!

 

[SeagoSteve]

See the small exhaust port, its about 1 3/8" from the back pump face. Pushing the valve IN, positions the full barrel of the valve against the port. So exhaust is blocked.
Pushing IN, positions the long taper on the valve at the large intake port so lift raises.View attachment 152262
Pic only shows one intake and one exhaust port. There are corresponding ports on the opposite side of the bushing.

Thanks again Soaked!

 

[Hobo,NC]

I have not messed with a 9/2N much I did find I could get good leverage on that valve by working through the drain plug hole. There is a 50/50 chance once you break it free it will work trouble free. Its worth a try if it sticks again the pump will have to come out.

 

[SeagoSteve]

I have not messed with a 9/2N much I did find I could get good leverage on that valve by working through the drain plug hole. There is a 50/50 chance once you break it free it will work trouble free. Its worth a try if it sticks again the pump will have to come out.

Thanks Hobo!

 

[SeagoSteve]

Ok, we removed the inspection covers, (both sides), and were able to grasp the forks, and move the valve to lower the arms. However, the linkage is not responding to the movement of the touch control lever. The linkage acts and feels as if it's movement is being restricted by something above in the top cover (could a mal-adjusted main control spring and plunger cause something this?)

This afternoon we're going to get back in it. I'm hoping we can avoid pulling that top cover. I'll have to move it under a heavier limb on the tree.

 

[HCooke]

Before you remove the top cover, disconnect the fork!

 

[soaked]

Pulled some parts together, trying to understand how the linkage works.

When the handle is in up, the spring is short, and the eccentric shaft is not acting on the fork. As the handle is moved to full down, the eccentric pushes the top of the fork forward, pivoting the bottom of the fork to the rear, expanding the spring. (control valve out)
The upper linkage the fork pivots on, (orange paint) can move forward or rearward, which moves the pivot location.
The main control spring adjustment can move the pivot point.
The quadrant adjustment moves the eccentric shaft.

Not sure what may be restricting the fork.
Did you loosen the 4 quadrant bolts and try moving the assy forward and rearward?

 

[SeagoSteve]

Ok fellas, the control valve is indeed working freely. However, it seems that the fork retracting spring (M on p92) is overpowering everything to pull the lift control lever fork (53 on p92) , and therefore the control valve. to the full up position. The touch control lever (57) just goes along for the ride, unless you hold it down with your hand.

What in the linkage normally prevents this? In normal operation does the crook on the far end of the control lever shaft (54 on p93) work as a cam against the lift control lever fork, in opposition to the pull of the fork retracting spring?

Could the control lever shaft possibly get "out of time", go "over toggle" so to speak, and allow the current behavior?

I don't know much about the previous owner(s), or who's had hands in it. So anything is possible.

 

[SeagoSteve]

Pulled some parts together, trying to understand how the linkage works.
View attachment 152413
When the handle is in up, the spring is short, and the eccentric shaft is not acting on the fork. As the handle is moved to full down, the eccentric pushes the top of the fork forward, pivoting the bottom of the fork to the rear, expanding the spring. (control valve out)
The upper linkage the fork pivots on, (orange paint) can move forward or rearward, which moves the pivot location.
The main control spring adjustment can move the pivot point.
The quadrant adjustment moves the eccentric shaft.

Not sure what may be restricting the fork.
Did you loosen the 4 quadrant bolts and try moving the assy forward and rearward?

Thanks Soaked, I .wish I'd have seen your post before I posted. That's some Grade A pondering material. I'm going to take a beat and do just that.

 

[soaked]

This pic is showing the new 2 dollar cork friction disk. Got it here at YT

Nut and spring washer on the shaft can set the friction level so the handle stays put.

 

[SeagoSteve]

This pic is showing the new 2 dollar cork friction disk. Got it here at YT
View attachment 152435
Nut and spring washer on the shaft can set the friction level so the handle stays put.

I'll def be changing the cork out, thanks. But I'm still wondering why the hydraulics are operating in the bottom couple of inches of quadrant. Could the main control spring and plunger have the "pivot point" to an extreme position, where the eccentric on the control shaft is just barely making contact? Hopefully as you pointed out upthread it's maybe in the quadrant adjustment. We'll loosen the 4 bolts and try moving the assy forward, to see if it maybe gets a better bite.

Thanks again

 

[soaked]

Yes, try the adjustment. Look at the FO-4 manual info.
9N, 2n don't have position control.
Once your 2n control valve pushes in for lift, it wont stop going up, until either the back of the piston skirt contacts the two pegs on the fork at the top, pushing the fork to the rear,,,, OR,,,, the valve is pulled back out. (by a "lower" command)
I think
Here is a kit to help make position control.
Scroll down to find it

Miscellaneous - Red Rock Manufacturing

Auxiliary PTO Lever Makes engaging and disengaging the PTO a breeze! No more fumbling for the lever! The auxiliary PTO lever puts the operation for the PTO in front of you, where it should be. The kit includes a knob that matches the existing transmission lever on the 8N, so it doesn't even look...

redrockmfg.com

 

[SeagoSteve]

Yes, try the adjustment. Look at the FO-4 manual info.
9N, 2n don't have position control.
Once your 2n control valve pushes in for lift, it wont stop going up, until either the back of the piston skirt contacts the two pegs on the fork at the top, pushing the fork to the rear,,,, OR,,,, the valve is pulled back out. (by a "lower" command)
I think
Here is a kit to help make position control.
Scroll down to find it

Miscellaneous - Red Rock Manufacturing

Auxiliary PTO Lever Makes engaging and disengaging the PTO a breeze! No more fumbling for the lever! The auxiliary PTO lever puts the operation for the PTO in front of you, where it should be. The kit includes a knob that matches the existing transmission lever on the 8N, so it doesn't even look...

redrockmfg.com

Thanks, actually we have the Red Rock position control, and when we put it on today, the added friction acted like a hand on the touch control lever, and the lift seems to behave as it should. I don't know how it'll act when we're mowing, but when the rain next stops, we're gonna pull the limiter chains and find out.

 

[soaked]

That's great! It works!
Please post back on its performance, so others can benifit.