Possibly installing a newer "improved" starter drive. Any opinions here???? ( Super M 6 volt starter on 12 volt system.)

[mike1972chev]

My 53 Super M has been on 12 volts since BEFORE I have owned it, and is using the SAME 6 volt starter it came with originally. I rebuilt awhile back ,and installed a standard starter drive when I did it. I am NOT really having any issues with it since, but have heard you could POSSIBLY break parts from the starter spinning faster and SLAMMING in that drive gear to the flywheel. I an seriously considering installing this newr "improved " drive that is out there, but do not know much about these.

My questions : #1 Is it worth changing the old style out for this newer style drive?
#2 Has anyone using these had any issues with using this newer drive?
#3 Does this atach to the armature shaft in any way different than the original older style drive?(Any extra parts to be buying??? (It looks to me like like it mounts to the shaft WAY different than the originals.)

 

[560Dennis]

Went back to original bendix drive .
I had trouble with mine getting socket head hex wrench to secure to set screw to armature shift . Only way was with bondus ball hex . if it that poorly designed to assemble then its going to failure . Told YT the issue ,sent it back . Maybe they resolved this problem , no instructions in box explaining assembly.
Note on advertising not release the drive or warranty is null.

 

[Duner Wi]

My 12 volt M with Firecrater Pistons has broken 1 spring in last 50 years. I do keep spare spring on hand. I would not improve it till it breaks.

 

[MM-TX]

I would also stay with what you have if you can't hear any unusual harshness.

These threads have some information if you haven't already read it. Some like it some don't.

R

Thread 'I like the improved starter drive for an old Farmall'

Aug 21, 2022

Had to put a starter drive (aka bendix) in my old 1946 Farmall M. I chose to go with the improved design which I bought from this site. I really like it. The starter engages so much smoother and without the clang and harshness that I have lived with from the original design for the last several years.

I may have to add one for the ole Farmall h as well although it has not been as harsh as the m used to be.

Only time will tell how the durability and longevity goes.

• rankrank1
• Replies: 9
• Forum: Farmall, International & McCormick

Thread 'Starter bendix, drive?'

Nov 6, 2009

My 1950 Farmall Super A has a 6V Delco Remy starter.
This is the gear in the "not engaged" position:
<a href="http://s723.photobucket.com/albums/ww237/farmallholder/?action=view&current=Starter1.jpg" target="_blank">

</a>

and in the "engaged" position:

<a href="http://s723.photobucket.com/albums/ww237/farmallholder/?action=view&current=Starter2.jpg" target="_blank">

• Hendrik
• Replies: 17
• Forum: Farmall, International & McCormick

 

[Farmall M 248]

Definitely 12 Volt

 

[560Dennis]

If you got a 6 volt starter on 12 volt system slamming the bendix into the flywheel ring gear .I suggest this ,better buy a case of bendix s at case price ,save that way.

 

[Hayfarmer]

I have been running 12 volts on 2 different 6V tractors, a jd and Farmall. I have had no problem with original bendex other than normal wear. The new improved bendex is hard to install. I would just use what you have. If one fails you could try the "new improved" kind.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

The whole "slamming" thing is people being overly dramatic and hypersensitive. There is absolutely nothing wrong with running a 6 volt starter on 12 volts. That's the whole point of the 12V conversion. Starter doesn't turn fast enough on 6V so you go 12V. The starter is not "slamming" it is positively and fully engaging the flywheel, which is EXACTLY what you want to happen! On 6V it kind of mushes into the flywheel only catching the edge of the gear, and that's where you get rounded off corners and failed ring gears.

 

[55 50 Ron]

In the past there have been responses here mentioning that the big starter cables used with 6 volt systems could be changed to smaller gauges to limit the DC current when changing to 12 volt systems. I've never measured the amperes in starters and don't know what smaller size cable may improve the situation. The smaller cables reduce the actual DC voltage reaching the starter. The ideal would be that the 12 volts is reduced to 6 volts, but that would be lots of watts (heat) which is bad for the cable. Any smaller cable would improve the situation if it can accommodate the heat. "Smaller" gauge means smaller cross section of the cables.

 

[560Dennis]

Suggust viewing this video to help make a decision on your starter . Made Larry Hagemeister ,Electric repair shop. He’s other information video s .

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Suggust viewing this video to help make a decision on your starter . Made Larry Hagemeister ,Electric repair shop. He’s other information video s .

That's the exception not the rule. Almost nobody converts their starters to 12V on the old 6V Farmalls. It's expensive. Good starter shops that are capable of doing it are hard to find. By and large there are no problems.

 

[wh]

Got a Super A and H here that we converted around 1985. Have done several for the neighbors (at least 12 I can think off). Have replaced the drive on the H maybe 3 times and the A maybe 2 times. No big deal and worth the little trouble to be on 12 volts.

 

[riverbend]

I put the newer style drive on my H because the original was getting stuck in the worn ring gear. Has worked great for 25 years.

 

[Bob M]

I converted my Super M to 12 volts a good 40 years ago and left the OEM 6 volt starter/bendix. It has served faithfully ever since - the only "repair" has been a new saddle switch about 15 years ago. From my experience the old starter drive is fully adequate on 12 volts(!)

 

[TomA in CA]

Squatch refuses to use 12 volts on a six volt starter. When they split their converted Super M they found the remains of two starter drives in the housing. I think reduced cable size might be a good idea.

 

[mike1972chev]

Squatch refuses to use 12 volts on a six volt starter. When they split their converted Super M they found the remains of two starter drives in the housing. I think reduced cable size might be a good idea.

I am agreeing with what you are saying, but if you have been following his Moline rebuild, THAT Delco starter armatuer is used in both 6V and 12 V Delco starters. I think I will just use what I have , and keep using a LOW CCA 12 V battery in it. When I had the diesel 31 series High amp battery in it it cranked F A S T !!!!!

 

[mike1972chev]

I truly appreciate ALL of the input here, seriously! I think what I am going to do is continue to use the low cold cranking amp battery I have in it, and keep what I got. (I had a diesel 31 series battery in it that was like 925+ CCA for awhile and it cranked QUICKLY, and did seem to plant the starter drive pretty rough!!! )I AM going to pull the starter out, and check the current drive I have installed on it for wear/damage. From what I gather, the springs are what break the most??? I guess you gotta buy a COMPLETE start drive to get just the spring??? Not a big deal....

 

[mike1972chev]

In the past there have been responses here mentioning that the big starter cables used with 6 volt systems could be changed to smaller gauges to limit the DC current when changing to 12 volt systems. I've never measured the amperes in starters and don't know what smaller size cable may improve the situation. The smaller cables reduce the actual DC voltage reaching the starter. The ideal would be that the 12 volts is reduced to 6 volts, but that would be lots of watts (heat) which is bad for the cable. Any smaller cable would improve the situation if it can accommodate the heat. "Smaller" gauge means smaller cross section of the cables.

Good advise. The biggest thing I remember like I mentioned below is going from a 31 series diesel HIGH cranking amp battery at about 925/950 CCA, to a smaller car battery that was like 500/550 CCA. It just seemed like I heard that starter drive really "banging in" the flywheel with that high amp battery... It sounded like the engine was turning at max RPM just on the starter motor!

 

[560Dennis]

Good advise. The biggest thing I remember like I mentioned below is going from a 31 series diesel HIGH cranking amp battery at about 925/950 CCA, to a smaller car battery that was like 500/550 CCA. It just seemed like I heard that starter drive really "banging in" the flywheel with that high amp battery... It sounded like the engine was turning at max RPM just on the starter

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