Which Ford loader models were normally fitted to pre-65 4000 Industrial tractors?

[wfboquist]

Hi all. I just bought a four-cylinder 4000 Industrial tractor. The exact model is 4030. I neglected to write down the serial number, so I don't know the exact year. But the sheet metal looks like the 801 sheet metal, so I *think* it is a 61 or 62. It has a non-Ford loader on it that looks very heavy to me - built by some outfit in Iowa, if I recall correctly. I would like to replace the loader with a Ford loader. I hope that someone who reads this post will know which Ford loader model(s) I should be looking for.

I am going back to the site from where I will move it tomorrow, so if a picture and/or the serial number would help, I can collect them and post on this thread. Also, I will write down the name of the manufacturer of the loader on it, and you can offer your opinions (if any) of the wisdom of replacing it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sean in PA]

4030 is definitely a 1961 or 1962 tractor. That model changed to 4130 in 1963. The 4030 is the "Light Industrial" model, and the 4040 was the heavy industrial model. I believe that the 4030 could have had a Ford 712 or 725 loader. The 712 was a heavier duty loader that was usually installed on the 4040, but I think I remember seeing one or two on 4030's, although those might have been installed by the owner and not the factory..

 

[wfboquist]

4030 is definitely a 1961 or 1962 tractor. That model changed to 4130 in 1963. The 4030 is the "Light Industrial" model, and the 4040 was the heavy industrial model. I believe that the 4030 could have had a Ford 712 or 725 loader. The 712 was a heavier duty loader that was usually installed on the 4040, but I think I remember seeing one or two on 4030's, although those might have been installed by the owner and not the factory..

Thanks. I have a 4140 with the 712 loader, but the 4030 is new to me. I bought it because it has the Elenco front axle on it. I will look for a 725 loader. I know of a 730 that is for sale - will that one definitely not work?

 

[Andy Wickiser]

4030 is definitely a 1961 or 1962 tractor. That model changed to 4130 in 1963. The 4030 is the "Light Industrial" model, and the 4040 was the heavy industrial model. I believe that the 4030 could have had a Ford 712 or 725 loader. The 712 was a heavier duty loader that was usually installed on the 4040, but I think I remember seeing one or two on 4030's, although those might have been installed by the owner and not the factory..

Sean, I think The 720 loader was the "normal" loader for the 4030 and the 712 was usually found on the HD industrials 1821 , 4040, Fordson Super Major and successors. The less heavy-duty 703 also might be found on a 4030.

 

[Sean in PA]

I believe that the 730 was designed for the later 3 cylinder tractors, which had the wider squared off sheet metal. You can probably make a 730 work on the earlier tractors, but you might need to fabricate your own mounting brackets.

 

[wfboquist]

Thank you both for that additional info. If anyone is interested, the full model and serial numbers are 4030 3 and 162653. I think the serial number makes it a 1962 example. The loader on it was produced by "The Parsons Company", a division of the Koehring Company. The things that induced me to buy it despite its rough condition are 1) The Elenco kit 2) the foot-operated throttle 3) My 4140 and the 4030 will be on different pieces of property until I sell one, and I need a loader on both.

I just need to find a Sherman transmission for it, so I can gear it down for rototilling.

I attached a couple of pictures.

 

[pomester]

Thank you both for that additional info. If anyone is interested, the full model and serial numbers are 4030 3 and 162653. I think the serial number makes it a 1962 example. The loader on it was produced by "The Parsons Company", a division of the Koehring Company. The things that induced me to buy it despite its rough condition are 1) The Elenco kit 2) the foot-operated throttle 3) My 4140 and the 4030 will be on different pieces of property until I sell one, and I need a loader on both.

I just need to find a Sherman transmission for it, so I can gear it down for rototilling.

I attached a couple of pictures.

Sherman is not effective for slowing down to till since it also slows down the PTO by the same ratio.

 

[wfboquist]

Thanks - I did not know that. I guess the first gear on my 860 will have to do, then. It has always worked, but I think it would work better if I had a way to make the tractor barely creep forward.

Another topic - does anyone recognize the model of the loader on the 2000 industrial in the attached photos? The seller say there is no build plate on it.

 

[Andy Wickiser]

Thanks - I did not know that. I guess the first gear on my 860 will have to do, then. It has always worked, but I think it would work better if I had a way to make the tractor barely creep forward.

Another topic - does anyone recognize the model of the loader on the 2000 industrial in the attached photos? The seller say there is no build plate on it.

I'm gonna say 724 which replaced the 720 Industrial I mentioned earlier. Perhaps 725 but that's the agricultural version. The design of these kind of forshadowed the classic 730 which was for the 3 cylinder models. Search for images and see if you agree.

 

[wfboquist]

I do agree. I also agree that the 730 deserves the word "classic". It is just a better-looking design than, say, the 703. I will probably buy this one or another one that is not as rough. Thank you for the heads-up..

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Thank you both for that additional info. If anyone is interested, the full model and serial numbers are 4030 3 and 162653. I think the serial number makes it a 1962 example. The loader on it was produced by "The Parsons Company", a division of the Koehring Company. The things that induced me to buy it despite its rough condition are 1) The Elenco kit 2) the foot-operated throttle 3) My 4140 and the 4030 will be on different pieces of property until I sell one, and I need a loader on both.

I just need to find a Sherman transmission for it, so I can gear it down for rototilling.

I attached a couple of pictures.

Thank you both for that additional info. If anyone is interested, the full model and serial numbers are 4030 3 and 162653. I think the serial number makes it a 1962 example. The loader on it was produced by "The Parsons Company", a division of the Koehring Company. The things that induced me to buy it despite its rough condition are 1) The Elenco kit 2) the foot-operated throttle 3) My 4140 and the 4030 will be on different pieces of property until I sell one, and I need a loader on both.

I just need to find a Sherman transmission for it, so I can gear it down for rototilling.

I attached a couple of pictures.

Hello WFBoquist , If you need parts for the Elenco let me know as I own the company and have for 40 years now . As for the Loaders the 720 , 724 and the 735 are the only ones you want the 730 might be a classic but it’s not an Industrial grade loader it’s just AG unit as is the 703 and the 725 none of them have big enough pumps to run the backhoe . Your 4030 model was built during 1960,1961 up to mid year 1962 when they changed over to the 4130 which was built from mid year 1962 through December of 1965 . What ever year the serial number says it was built that is the year . Ford not sell tractors like cars or trucks . If it was built on December 31 , 1962 then it is a 1962 and not a 1963 as a car or truck would be . Foot operated throttles are standard on all Industrial models both Light duty 4030/4130 and Heavy Duty 1801/4040/4140 . Thanks Tony

 

[wfboquist]

Thanks for that info, Tony. It has been a long time, but you may recall that you once found a boom cylinder for me for a 723 backhoe I bought without one. You brought it to IL while you were on a long trip and transferred it to me at a tractor show near the IL/IN state line.

RE: the foot-operated throttle, I wish my 4140 had one. It had the standard one when I bought it, and still does. I bought another four-cyl Industrial shortly after this thread started, because I got the (non-running) tractor for what I would have been willing to pay for the loader. It also lacks the foot-operated throttle. It seems to have had very little wear and tear on it. None of the pin holes on the loader are sloppy, and there is very little wear on the clutch pedal grooves. I plan to put the loader on the 4030 with the Elenco axle and discard the loader that is on it now.

I do have one question at this time. On an 841 with an Elenco axle that I used to own, the front drive could be engaged or disengaged by turning a nut (actually, it was a socket that someone had welded on it) on the back of the transfer case. On this 4030, there is nothing back there. Is the front axle just engaged all the time on the later models? The differential on this one has the "Elenco" name cast into it, if that helps with identification.

 

[wfboquist]

Hello WFBoquist , If you need parts for the Elenco let me know as I own the company and have for 40 years now . As for the Loaders the 720 , 724 and the 735 are the only ones you want the 730 might be a classic but it’s not an Industrial grade loader it’s just AG unit as is the 703 and the 725 none of them have big enough pumps to run the backhoe . Your 4030 model was built during 1960,1961 up to mid year 1962 when they changed over to the 4130 which was built from mid year 1962 through December of 1965 . What ever year the serial number says it was built that is the year . Ford not sell tractors like cars or trucks . If it was built on December 31 , 1962 then it is a 1962 and not a 1963 as a car or truck would be . Foot operated throttles are standard on all Industrial models both Light duty 4030/4130 and Heavy Duty 1801/4040/4140 . Thanks Tony

Hello again. I hit "Post reply" on the previous message before I attached a photo of the diff on the 4030, for reference.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Thanks for that info, Tony. It has been a long time, but you may recall that you once found a boom cylinder for me for a 723 backhoe I bought without one. You brought it to IL while you were on a long trip and transferred it to me at a tractor show near the IL/IN state line.

RE: the foot-operated throttle, I wish my 4140 had one. It had the standard one when I bought it, and still does. I bought another four-cyl Industrial shortly after this thread started, because I got the (non-running) tractor for what I would have been willing to pay for the loader. It also lacks the foot-operated throttle. It seems to have had very little wear and tear on it. None of the pin holes on the loader are sloppy, and there is very little wear on the clutch pedal grooves. I plan to put the loader on the 4030 with the Elenco axle and discard the loader that is on it now.

I do have one question at this time. On an 841 with an Elenco axle that I used to own, the front drive could be engaged or disengaged by turning a nut (actually, it was a socket that someone had welded on it) on the back of the transfer case. On this 4030, there is nothing back there. Is the front axle just engaged all the time on the later models? The differential on this one has the "Elenco" name cast into it, if that helps with identification.

Yes it has been a long time , like 20 or more years when we met up at that show for that cylinder . All Industrials regardless of Heavy Duty or Light Duty came stock from the Factory with Foot Throttles so more than likely some of the factory pieces are still there but many are missing the pedal and the linkage up to the steering box . I was going to tell you to get rid of that Loader and locate a Ford one so that’s good that you found one . All Later Elenco kits with the Torque Limiter on the back of the Transfer case are Disengage able but many have been broken off by guys who think you need a Breaker Bar to turn them . They can be repaired and there is 2 different designs of the Nut assemblies . Since your 4030 is a 1962 and a Cast Axle kit I would say it was Dealer Installed . There should be a tag on the left side of the axle on the bearing plate for the steering shaft right where it bolts to the Ford axle beam if it is gone you will see 4 rivet heads or holes where the rivets were . There is also a Serial number on the back of the Torque Limiter in a circular pattern around the Engagement Nut . Thanks Tony

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Thanks for that info, Tony. It has been a long time, but you may recall that you once found a boom cylinder for me for a 723 backhoe I bought without one. You brought it to IL while you were on a long trip and transferred it to me at a tractor show near the IL/IN state line.

RE: the foot-operated throttle, I wish my 4140 had one. It had the standard one when I bought it, and still does. I bought another four-cyl Industrial shortly after this thread started, because I got the (non-running) tractor for what I would have been willing to pay for the loader. It also lacks the foot-operated throttle. It seems to have had very little wear and tear on it. None of the pin holes on the loader are sloppy, and there is very little wear on the clutch pedal grooves. I plan to put the loader on the 4030 with the Elenco axle and discard the loader that is on it now.

I do have one question at this time. On an 841 with an Elenco axle that I used to own, the front drive could be engaged or disengaged by turning a nut (actually, it was a socket that someone had welded on it) on the back of the transfer case. On this 4030, there is nothing back there. Is the front axle just engaged all the time on the later models? The differential on this one has the "Elenco" name cast into it, if that helps with identification.

I forgot to say the Loader on the 2 wheel drive Industrial on the trailer looks like an early model 735 which is good and it’s early because it has a 4 cylinder frame on it not the later 3 cylinder frame even though both will fit . Tony