Elenco 4x4 dogleg decal

[Tony Jacobs]

Ford didn't make the 840 before 1957 (which some people find hard to believe). I have a 1957 840 with 19-97 loader and 713 backhoe. It was made just prior to the switchover to the 8X1- Series. My serial number is 144875. I have yet to find an 800-Series tractor with a higher serial number although there are probably a few out there. I'd be interested to know Maineman's 840 Serial Number.
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Hello Andy , Well that’s why I was questioning him about it I was looking for the exact start date which I have for the 640 which was 10/12/1954 and the 740 which was 2/10/1955 but I can’t find it right now . The Four Speed was only offered on the cheaper tractors and the more expensive tractors received the five speeds early on . Ford claims the last 100 series serial number to 145056 but I know that it is a little bit on the low side . Ford claims the 01 series ended at 171247 and I have seen a few higher than that also but Ford didn’t claim either figure to be set in stone . There was a restored 62 861 Elenco at 171500 . So I would like to see a photo of his serial number and the Elenco kit if it is an early one . Thanks Tony

 

[Maineman]

Sorry, I should have checked first.
It's an 841. Serial number 37343.
The tractor has everything you would want when buying a tlb back in the day.
Except it's an agricultural machine.
It's pretty well beat. But the blue paint and rebuilt engine make me think maybe it was a trade in for a new machine.
And then the dealership replaced the engine.
Gave everything a quick coat of blue paint and sold it.
The laoder and back hoe appear to have always been blue. But the tractor was originally red. And the rear cast centers were white.
Part of me thinks they may have just switched out the industrial tractor with a better ag tractor they had on the lot?

Joe

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Sorry, I should have checked first.
It's an 841. Serial number 37343.
The tractor has everything you would want when buying a tlb back in the day.
Except it's an agricultural machine.
It's pretty well beat. But the blue paint and rebuilt engine make me think maybe it was a trade in for a new machine.
And then the dealership replaced the engine.
Gave everything a quick coat of blue paint and sold it.
The laoder and back hoe appear to have always been blue. But the tractor was originally red. And the rear cast centers were white.
Part of me thinks they may have just switched out the industrial tractor with a better ag tractor they had on the lot?

Joe

You never know what these Dealers will do to sell a machine then and it now . Your tractor is a 1958 . Not a problem in checking first I always question without a serial number too many variables that’s all . Tony

 

[Maineman]

Some photos of the
plates for componants;

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Some photos of the
plates for componants;

The 703 Loader is late 1957 the Backhoe is early 1959 . The Elenco kit is early because I can see the steering limit chains still on the left side so that is probably 1958/1959 . The serial number for the Elenco is on the left side bearing plate where the steering shaft comes up through it . It will be 8 digits long starting with a 58 or 59 more than likely and the front diff cover will be a bolt on one . Tony

 

[Andy Wickiser]

Hello Andy , Well that’s why I was questioning him about it I was looking for the exact start date which I have for the 640 which was 10/12/1954 and the 740 which was 2/10/1955 but I can’t find it right now . The Four Speed was only offered on the cheaper tractors and the more expensive tractors received the five speeds early on . Ford claims the last 100 series serial number to 145056 but I know that it is a little bit on the low side . Ford claims the 01 series ended at 171247 and I have seen a few higher than that also but Ford didn’t claim either figure to be set in stone . There was a restored 62 861 Elenco at 171500 . So I would like to see a photo of his serial number and the Elenco kit if it is an early one . Thanks Tony

First good to hear from you again. I was talking specifically the Model 840, I know the 134-based tractors often had the 4-speed transmission from the beginning of production. The original lineup for the 800s was 820, 850, and 860 as depicted in the brochure below - no 840. Also I went out and checked my radiator: dated 9-57. My 713/703 backhoe setup appears to be original and officially I believe the 713 came out in 1958.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

First good to hear from you again. I was talking specifically the Model 840, I know the 134-based tractors often had the 4-speed transmission from the beginning of production. The original lineup for the 800s was 820, 850, and 860 as depicted in the brochure below - no 840. Also I went out and checked my radiator: dated 9-57. My 713/703 backhoe setup appears to be original and officially I believe the 713 came out in 1958.
View attachment 152790

Well good to hear from you again also . Yes I know you were talking about the 840 model I still have tons of Ford original paperwork that’s why I was looking for the 840 start date just can’t find it . The Heavy Duty Industrial Tractor 1801 series and the matching 712 Loader came out around June /July of 1958 around serial number 45000 or so I would have to look it up to be exact . Ford brought out 713 Hoe and the SOS in 1959 . All of that was so hush hush they didn’t even tell the Elenco boys so that they could get a front axle kit ready . That’s why you see early 58 1801’s with 1960 Elenco kits on them . There definately wasn’t any 713’s out in 1958 . You could however get a Wain-Roy Hoe in 1958 which is who Ford was working with to design their Hoe . Tony

 

[Andy Wickiser]

Well good to hear from you again also . Yes I know you were talking about the 840 model I still have tons of Ford original paperwork that’s why I was looking for the 840 start date just can’t find it . The Heavy Duty Industrial Tractor 1801 series and the matching 712 Loader came out around June /July of 1958 around serial number 45000 or so I would have to look it up to be exact . Ford brought out 713 Hoe and the SOS in 1959 . All of that was so hush hush they didn’t even tell the Elenco boys so that they could get a front axle kit ready . That’s why you see early 58 1801’s with 1960 Elenco kits on them . There definately wasn’t any 713’s out in 1958 . You could however get a Wain-Roy Hoe in 1958 which is who Ford was working with to design their Hoe . Tony

Do you have the book "Wain-Roy and the Invention of the Backhoe"? Wain-Roy designed and manufactured the 713 for Ford. Below is an excerpt, credit to the book mentioned. It shows the first production unit in 1958. Eventually there was drama and bad blood between Wain-Roy and Ford as told in the book. I guess this is neither here nor there - just interesting Ford trivia.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Do you have the book "Wain-Roy and the Invention of the Backhoe"? Wain-Roy designed and manufactured the 713 for Ford. Below is an excerpt, credit to the book mentioned. It shows the first production unit in 1958. Eventually there was drama and bad blood between Wain-Roy and Ford as told in the book. I guess this is neither here nor there - just interesting Ford trivia.
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Hello Andy , Yes I have the book and I knew some of those guys personally . Their shop was only about a half hour from mine . Back in the late 80’s early 90’s when they were still alive I had been up there getting parts and manuals from them . There was a lot of Wain-Roy hoes around here . There is a big difference between the first production unit and being released to the public . The bad blood story is kind of a cover to what really happened Ole Waino made out quite well working with Ford others didn’t work out as well . Wain-Roy’s design was a welded structure type way to time consuming for mass production but stronger and of course heavier . All of that had to be changed . The formed tubing style was all Ford for mass production but dimensionally the same as the Wain-Roy . Waino had a plane and used to fly back and forth to Detroit while all of that was going on . The Wain-Roy subframe on the Heavy Duty Industrial looked just like Fords castings but it was a welded structure also wish I had kept a couple of sets I had never seen broken ones like the castings . I had quite few Fords with Wain-Roy hoes on them pretty common around here just because of the proximity of the factory . There was another Backhoe factory in between our two shops but can’t remember who they were building them for offhand . That placed burned to the ground in that time period also . I was working on a Heavy Duty Industrial Loader Hoe with an Elenco on it in that building it was barbacued too ! Tony

 

[Andy Wickiser]

Hello Andy , Yes I have the book and I knew some of those guys personally . Their shop was only about a half hour from mine . Back in the late 80’s early 90’s when they were still alive I had been up there getting parts and manuals from them . There was a lot of Wain-Roy hoes around here . There is a big difference between the first production unit and being released to the public . The bad blood story is kind of a cover to what really happened Ole Waino made out quite well working with Ford others didn’t work out as well . Wain-Roy’s design was a welded structure type way to time consuming for mass production but stronger and of course heavier . All of that had to be changed . The formed tubing style was all Ford for mass production but dimensionally the same as the Wain-Roy . Waino had a plane and used to fly back and forth to Detroit while all of that was going on . The Wain-Roy subframe on the Heavy Duty Industrial looked just like Fords castings but it was a welded structure also wish I had kept a couple of sets I had never seen broken ones like the castings . I had quite few Fords with Wain-Roy hoes on them pretty common around here just because of the proximity of the factory . There was another Backhoe factory in between our two shops but can’t remember who they were building them for offhand . That placed burned to the ground in that time period also . I was working on a Heavy Duty Industrial Loader Hoe with an Elenco on it in that building it was barbacued too ! Tony

Tony, Thanks for taking the time. It was a pleasure hearing from you knowing that you have first-hand knowledge from some of the Wain-Roy people.

I reread the book sections relating to Wain-Roy's Ford relationship and came out more confused. I always assumed that the picture I previously posted from the book, first production unit, was a 713. However 713 isn't mentioned until later in the book when Wain-Roy and Ford were at odds over patent and production rights and Ford had started making copies on their own. I've never seen Ford's 713-looking backhoe with the Ford script on the boom refered to as anything else (other than the later 723 which is basically a 713 with a package of improvements). Oh well...

Also, on a different matter, below is an introductory ad for the Ford 840 dated 1957. One main advantage that I can see is that it can be equipped with an auxilliary transmission, not available for the 5-speeds. Also I think the market wanted a more conventional and familiar shift pattern over the 5-speed. My 840 originally had the Powermaster decaling and dogleg model ID just as shown.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Tony, Thanks for taking the time. It was a pleasure hearing from you knowing that you have first-hand knowledge from some of the Wain-Roy people.

I reread the book sections relating to Wain-Roy's Ford relationship and came out more confused. I always assumed that the picture I previously posted from the book, first production unit, was a 713. However 713 isn't mentioned until later in the book when Wain-Roy and Ford were at odds over patent and production rights and Ford had started making copies on their own. I've never seen Ford's 713-looking backhoe with the Ford script on the boom refered to as anything else (other than the later 723 which is basically a 713 with a package of improvements). Oh well...

Also, on a different matter, below is an introductory ad for the Ford 840 dated 1957. One main advantage that I can see is that it can be equipped with an auxilliary transmission, not available for the 5-speeds. Also I think the market wanted a more conventional and familiar shift pattern over the 5-speed. My 840 originally had the Powermaster decaling and dogleg model ID just as shown.

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Andy message me or just call my number if you have it , I’m sure you have seen it posted here before . I can tell you more that I prefer not to post here . I believe I have those 57 ads also . I have an earlier 57 850 that had the Powermaster decals with a ford Loader and a 57 Ford grader blade plus it is an Elenco to boot . Near as I can figure it was always used for snow removal . Tony

 

[Maineman]

So, since the talk has shifted to Wain-Roy back hoes, I have a story for you.
Some ten years ago I bought a Ford 8N-C.
It came with a jungle Jim loader and a back hoe. It had stopped running in the middle of the sellers garden. It was quite a rigging job to get it out of there and onto my trailer!
When I got it home I took the back hoe off and decided it wasn't worth fixing. All the hydraulic piston shafts were rusted and pitted.
Then i saw an ad on craigslist looking for a first series Wain-Roy. I replied that I had a second or third series. He wanted it. I loaded it more or less onto a small utility trailer for him. He hauled it back to Fitchburg Mass area. I asked him to call me when he got home because I was concerned.
Some time latter he sent me a short vidio of him using the beautifully restored hoe!
I don't know what his connection was to Wain-Roy. But, I believe there was one.
That hoe had a stablelizer that was one piece as opposed to two separate arms. It was made of welded I beams or "C" channel. I believe the it was a 1952. Same as the tractor.

Joe