Ford NAA New-To-Me, Have Questions

[sheath]

Just picked up an NAA with a Davis 101 loader and a rear blade that I don't remember the mfg of.
Runs decent. Leaks, stops, lifts, lowers, drifts. It has been worked hard, and needs work to make it safe/reliable.

(Side note: This U-Haul "Toy Hauler" trailer worked excellent to haul the tractor)

I don't have plans to restore. It would be a much better investment to buy a restored version from someone with a passion for these old tractors.
That wrote this tractor does need to function correctly, and look fairly decent. It will be put it back fairly original, sans electrical updates, a bit of modification to the loader, and possibly power steering.

Couple of questions:
* Does anyone replicate the Vari-Weight option? The loader really lightens the rear end. I'd rather not fill the tires.
* What are NAA owners doing for a competent battery hold down on their 12V negative ground conversions?
* Is the reprint of the Ford NAA Service Shop Manual more of a supplement to the earlier 8N repair manual? Just finished reading it, and seems a bit on the light side.

Quick background on me for anyone who might care, or is just bored and wants something trivial to read.
I try and search best as possible before asking questions.
Been a big fan of the NAA for decades. Even had the large Ertl model of the Golden Jubilee.
Retired from 40 years as a professional mechanic. 34 years in the Industrial Equipment sector. ASE master automotive and med/HD truck. I'm very competent in electrical / hydraulic troubleshooting and repair. I've also done quite a bit of fabrication as a hobby.
I have no prior tractor operation experience. Nor am I a farmer. This tractor will move some dirt, unload pallets (once an attachment QD is fabricated for the Davis loader), and maybe level/till up about a 1/2 acre garden area.

Parts are rolling in from YT, and a couple other vendors. Meanwhile I've been reading pages of forum threads on the NAA, along with reading the Owner's Manual, Service Manual, Parts Manual, etc..

Thanks in advance for any insight you have on the above questions.
Scott

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Just picked up an NAA with a Davis 101 loader and a rear blade that I don't remember the mfg of.
Runs decent. Leaks, stops, lifts, lowers, drifts. It has been worked hard, and needs work to make it safe/reliable.
View attachment 152940
(Side note: This U-Haul "Toy Hauler" trailer worked excellent to haul the tractor)

I don't have plans to restore. It would be a much better investment to buy a restored version from someone with a passion for these old tractors.
That wrote this tractor does need to function correctly, and look fairly decent. It will be put it back fairly original, sans electrical updates, a bit of modification to the loader, and possibly power steering.

Couple of questions:
* Does anyone replicate the Vari-Weight option? The loader really lightens the rear end. I'd rather not fill the tires.
* What are NAA owners doing for a competent battery hold down on their 12V negative ground conversions?
* Is the reprint of the Ford NAA Service Shop Manual more of a supplement to the earlier 8N repair manual? Just finished reading it, and seems a bit on the light side.

Quick background on me for anyone who might care, or is just bored and wants something trivial to read.
I try and search best as possible before asking questions.
Been a big fan of the NAA for decades. Even had the large Ertl model of the Golden Jubilee.
Retired from 40 years as a professional mechanic. 34 years in the Industrial Equipment sector. ASE master automotive and med/HD truck. I'm very competent in electrical / hydraulic troubleshooting and repair. I've also done quite a bit of fabrication as a hobby.
I have no prior tractor operation experience. Nor am I a farmer. This tractor will move some dirt, unload pallets (once an attachment QD is fabricated for the Davis loader), and maybe level/till up about a 1/2 acre garden area.

Parts are rolling in from YT, and a couple other vendors. Meanwhile I've been reading pages of forum threads on the NAA, along with reading the Owner's Manual, Service Manual, Parts Manual, etc..
View attachment 152941

Thanks in advance for any insight you have on the above questions.
Scott

Hello Scott , The Vari-Weight set commonly known as pie weights were not designed for the N-Series or the NAA tractors because they really weren’t loader tractors to begin with . The Dearborn loaders that were available for them originally didn’t lift that much and didn’t require much counterweight . The rear ends are very weak and the hub and axle combination is prone to wear and loosening up so adding weight just makes the problem worse . I believe the Ford recomendation was only about 300lbs per wheel . Heavy pie weights are 600lbs per wheel and the light duty ones are 400lbs per wheel . I know you are going to say that you are not going to work it that hard and that’s fine you can use them if you want you have enough mechanical expertise to understand what I am saying . As far as the loader goes I don’t know the lift capacity off hand but the rule of thumb is every pound of lift needs a pound of counterweight you can look that up and figure that out . The tires can be filled with used antifreeze or windshield washer fluid if corrosion is your concern rather than calcium chloride . The 52/53/54 NAA tractor is a tractor that was not meant to be that’s why there isn’t a lot of technical info on them . While the Ford Ferguson Lawsuit was going on Ford was already designing the new 600/700/800/900 series of tractors . Ford thought their endless supply of money and lawyers could drag this lawsuit on endlessly but they were wrong when they lost they had to stop using Fergusons three point hitch design . Which meant no more tractors to sell . The new tractors were not ready so they cobbled this tractor together to have something to sell that would not infringe on the Ferguson patents and said look at the new tractor we built . There are plenty of guys who will disagree because they think that this is some great tractor advancement but it’s not . It was just a stop gap measure to fill the hole until the new tractors were ready . In 1954 when the new tractors were ready the NAA was dropped and everything that was NAA related such as the transmission with external hydraulics , the three point hitch system , the rear axle design was completely dropped from production never to be used again . Here again plenty will disagree but the N-Series ran from 1939-1952 over a million tractors built . The NAA was 1952-1954 and about 70,000 were built . When the new tractors came out the 100 series , then the 01 series and finally the 1000 series tractors ran from 1954-1965 and over a million were built again . The NAA just fills the void created by the lawsuit nothing more nothing less . If you look at Ford tractor service bulletins the Select-O-Speed leads the way with the most bulletins published right behind that is the NAA with its Hydraulic system and rear end problems . Since nothing from the NAA was ever to be used again there was not a lot service info produced just enough to get by . As far as holding down the battery goes many later design hold downs can be used . The 12volt battery is the common GM size from Chevelles Novas Camaros the old group 26 size . My mechanical background is similar to yours plus GM and Exxon engineering Ski lift fabrication and wire rope splicing . Chevrolet car and Truck restoration and Ford Tractor restoration . My favorites are the 1954-1965 tractors especially Industrial stuff. Thanks Tony plus 40 years of building Select-O-Speeds .

 

[mhb@ufe]

Adding weight to the rear tires will help with traction but does not help to offset the weight of the loader on the front end. Adding weight on the three point hitch is the only way to shift some of the loader weight to the rear axle.

 

[showcrop]

Contrary to popular belief, Compact diesel with FWA have not always been in use. 80 to 40 years ago most loader work was done with the farm's one and only utility tractor. When the loader was going to be used the owner backed up to his counterweight, which was often just a 55 gal drum with a lot of rocks and iron with a chain on top. He either hooked it up to his three point, or just tipped it onto the drawbar between the lift arms, depending on how fancy it was. Also, this was before quick detach loaders were common so it was very common to see the bucket removed when it was not to be used as during haying.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Adding weight to the rear tires will help with traction but does not help to offset the weight of the loader on the front end. Adding weight on the three point hitch is the only way to shift some of the loader weight to the rear axle.

Yes added weight to the rear wheels will definitely help offset the weight lifted by the loader . BUT the further back the weight is past the center of the rear axle it compounds the affect acting like you added more weight than you actually did . If you were to read the Factory Ford Counterweighting charts for the Loaders and Implements that they built and sold they list a recommended weight for each accessory and its related job . Ford recommends that backhoe tractors have loaded tires and wheel weights on them even though most owners never bothered . The heavier the backhoe is the better it digs the hydraulic power tends to drag the machine towards the hole when you are digging . The harder the digging the more it moves . I have personally dug out rocks here in New England (not like thats any surprise here) that were as big as the backhoe and weighed just as much . The key is weight and chains I have chained the machines to nearby trees dug an exit ramp and used the hoe to roll the rock out of the hole . Hydraulic strength is never the problem it’s keeping the machine from pulling itself into the hole that’s the problem . My favorite Ford a 1962 Gas 841 with an Elenco kit and a small standard 703 Ford loader on it has loaded 16.9x24 tires on it which have 600lbs of used antifreeze in each tire plus the heavy duty pie weights at another 600lbs per tire plus a 1000lb concrete block on the three point hitch and I can still lift the rear tires off the ground on certain jobs . Ford lists that as just an AG Loader with about 1500lbs of lift and guys wonder why they break spindles and destroy front end parts with it never mind getting into Fords Industrial line of loaders . I used to run a Fiat-Allis loader with a 10 yard bucket on it , it weighted 70,000lbs you want to talk about hydraulic strength it had a KT1150 Cummins in it with over 500hp truly amazing what weight and hydraulic power can do . Thanks Tony

 

[sheath]

Sincerely appreciate all the info and insight.

Tony your thoughts on the '52-'54 make a lot of sense. Put together with what I've been reading in the Ford documentation, and other threads it was a "light bulb" moment. Things like the semi floating rear axle bearing setup, front axle pin & mount sizing.
Really appreciate you taking the time to make the very thoughtful and educational reply.

Mark & Showcrop, Great points. Thank you for the well thought responses. I was looking at a weight box for the 3 point hitch yesterday. I'm still a bit undecided as it creates another possible failure point.
Even with an empty bucket the rear tires tend to tear up the rock driveway. But that may be partially related to the two different size tires. A 12" fairly worn tire on one side, and an 11.2" fairly new tire on the other. Will probably get replaced with a pair of 12.4x28, with a new set of 12" rims. Sure wish Goodyear made the R14 in that size. Seems like a great compromise tire for my application.

Reading over your responses, putting that great insight along with other threads and Ford documentation my thought is limited careful use may fit the application. If not, I'll sell this and get something more practical. From a purely sentimental point, I'm hoping this tractor fits the bill.
There is just something about the styling and nose badge that puts a big happy grin on my face.

Remaining question:
Given what you know now with your experience on these tractors would you purchase the Ford 8N repair manual, or the NAA I&T repair manual to suppliment the NAA Service Shop Manual?

Thanks again guys! Sincerely appreciate the input.

 

[anderson farms]

Looking forward to the project. I'm in a similar situation with the 861 we have. The idea of adding power steering is really growing on me. And when I get it all around good I want to repaint it.

 

[mhb@ufe]

Good video testing weight distribution

 

[sheath]

Good video testing weight distribution

Good video, and matches what I learned over the years on industrial/construction equipment. Hopefully he will make the video on just adding ballast to the tires. He did correctly mention adding ballast to the rear tires will help compensate for load in front of the front axle. But it was almost as an aside.

My thought on the Vari-Weight system is:
+ Ability to vary the added weight based on load fairly quickly and easily.
+ The weight is added to the tires, which doesn't affect the axle bearing load as dramatically as adding weight on the rear hitch.
+ Keeps the tractor short and maneuverable in tighter spaces.
The downside from my point of view is:
- The added rotating mass negatively impacts brake life, fuel consumption, tire wear, and slightly affects axle bearing longevity.

I will keep an eye on the used market for a Vari-Weight setup. It fits my application best. Meantime I'll consider a partial liquid fill to help load the rear tires, and some sort of load carrying device for the 3 point hitch.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Good video, and matches what I learned over the years on industrial/construction equipment. Hopefully he will make the video on just adding ballast to the tires. He did correctly mention adding ballast to the rear tires will help compensate for load in front of the front axle. But it was almost as an aside.

My thought on the Vari-Weight system is:
+ Ability to vary the added weight based on load fairly quickly and easily.
+ The weight is added to the tires, which doesn't affect the axle bearing load as dramatically as adding weight on the rear hitch.
+ Keeps the tractor short and maneuverable in tighter spaces.
The downside from my point of view is:
- The added rotating mass negatively impacts brake life, fuel consumption, tire wear, and slightly affects axle bearing longevity.

I will keep an eye on the used market for a Vari-Weight setup. It fits my application best. Meantime I'll consider a partial liquid fill to help load the rear tires, and some sort of load carrying device for the 3 point hitch.

Hello Scott , The video is Ok but he doesn’t touch on factory recommendations for one . If you go to Kubota they will want a certain amount of weight for ballast just to use that particular loader on that particular tractor . The bigger the tractor the bigger the loader the more weight that will be added . Taking weight off the front axle isn’t really the object when adding a loader that is only part of it . Keeping the backend on the ground for traction and braking is the object here . If it was two wheel drive then you don’t have a front drive axle on that tractor to drag it around . So counterweighting is more important than on a 4x4 . Another point he does mention . That Kubota and the majority of other tractors are not true four wheel drive because tire size , axle size and gear ratio are not equal front and rear . This is basically just Front Wheel assist set up . These will also have more front axle weight regardless on the loader because the engine sits on the front axle and nothing sits on the rear axle . However when you hitch a 2 bottom plow to the three point hitch and bury it in the ground the draft loads the rear axle and takes the load off the front axle which of course he can’t measure . Not to mention an AG tractor with a set back axle is going to be completely different than an Industrial tractor that has the front axle pushed further forward specifically to compensate for higher axle loads because of larger loaders with more lifting and carrying capacity . Not picking on your NAA in particular but in regards to your other concerns and or questions the later Ford tractors (especially the mid year 1961-1965 tractors have all of the later improvements of the model run) they have heavy castings better steel in the castings larger bearings larger brakes etc etc . When Ford brought out the backhoe in 1959 they found out real fast what was lacking in their tractors so after a couple years of upgrades they finally fixed everything within reason . Your NAA has 10” brakes the later tractor went to 14” better but not still great . Axle shaft diameter was increased just about 1” never mind the axle bearing diameter increase . Fuel consumption isnt great loaded or empty so don’t be concerned about that it gets worse with the 172 and still worse with 192 engines . I forgot to mention the Heavy Duty Industrial tractors (1801/4040/4140) have a front axle weight rating of 9,000 pounds so Ford was figuring that in on the later tractors . Take a look at the Light Duty Industrial (basically an AG tractor with a solid front axle) but the axle is pushed about 6” further forward for the bigger loaders . Thanks Tony

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Hello Scott , The video is Ok but he doesn’t touch on factory recommendations for one . If you go to Kubota they will want a certain amount of weight for ballast just to use that particular loader on that particular tractor . The bigger the tractor the bigger the loader the more weight that will be added . Taking weight off the front axle isn’t really the object when adding a loader that is only part of it . Keeping the backend on the ground for traction and braking is the object here . If it was two wheel drive then you don’t have a front drive axle on that tractor to drag it around . So counterweighting is more important than on a 4x4 . Another point he does mention . That Kubota and the majority of other tractors are not true four wheel drive because tire size , axle size and gear ratio are not equal front and rear . This is basically just Front Wheel assist set up . These will also have more front axle weight regardless on the loader because the engine sits on the front axle and nothing sits on the rear axle . However when you hitch a 2 bottom plow to the three point hitch and bury it in the ground the draft loads the rear axle and takes the load off the front axle which of course he can’t measure . Not to mention an AG tractor with a set back axle is going to be completely different than an Industrial tractor that has the front axle pushed further forward specifically to compensate for higher axle loads because of larger loaders with more lifting and carrying capacity . Not picking on your NAA in particular but in regards to your other concerns and or questions the later Ford tractors (especially the mid year 1961-1965 tractors have all of the later improvements of the model run) they have heavy castings better steel in the castings larger bearings larger brakes etc etc . When Ford brought out the backhoe in 1959 they found out real fast what was lacking in their tractors so after a couple years of upgrades they finally fixed everything within reason . Your NAA has 10” brakes the later tractor went to 14” better but not still great . Axle shaft diameter was increased just about 1” never mind the axle bearing diameter increase . Fuel consumption isnt great loaded or empty so don’t be concerned about that it gets worse with the 172 and still worse with 192 engines . I forgot to mention the Heavy Duty Industrial tractors (1801/4040/4140) have a front axle weight rating of 9,000 pounds so Ford was figuring that in on the later tractors . Take a look at the Light Duty Industrial (basically an AG tractor with a solid front axle) but the axle is pushed about 6” further forward for the bigger loaders . Thanks Tony

One more thing I forgot that he doesn’t mention is the placement of the loader on the tractor . If you look at Ford tractors with Ford loaders on them you will see how close the bucket is to the front tires which of course affects front axle load . Then look at pictures of Ford tractors with your Davis loader , Wagner loaders , Lord loaders , Superior loaders and the countless other brands out there . Look at how far the bucket is away from the front tires , some of them hang out in front quite a bit . Look at the loader placement on that particular Kubota and compare to the others . That is another whole topic he doesn’t mention . Thanks Tony

 

[Tony Jacobs]

One more thing I forgot that he doesn’t mention is the placement of the loader on the tractor . If you look at Ford tractors with Ford loaders on them you will see how close the bucket is to the front tires which of course affects front axle load . Then look at pictures of Ford tractors with your Davis loader , Wagner loaders , Lord loaders , Superior loaders and the countless other brands out there . Look at how far the bucket is away from the front tires , some of them hang out in front quite a bit . Look at the loader placement on that particular Kubota and compare to the others . That is another whole topic he doesn’t mention . Thanks Tony

Another thing I forgot that he doesn’t mention is the limitations of what the three point hitch can lift which will never be enough to match what the loader can lift . This topic can just keep going on and on ! Tony

 

[sheath]

Another thing I forgot that he doesn’t mention is the limitations of what the three point hitch can lift which will never be enough to match what the loader can lift . This topic can just keep going on and on ! Tony

Yes it can. Eventually it comes back to the simplicity of what works.
My thought after looking over the loader on this specific tractor, noting the amount of wear on the valve spools, the amount of repairs on the bucket, and the reasonable condition of the tractor steering, spindle thrust bearings, etc., is that this thing has been worked hard for decades, and it still works. Hard to argue against a time proven reality.
With that in mind, and the cheap price of replacement parts, it shouldn't be hard or expensive to get this back in shape. With reasonably intelligent use it should workout okay for the limited duty on this property. For large or heavy work, we have some pretty reasonable rental houses in our area with plenty of proper equipment.
The original question was in regards to the availability of reproduced wheel weights. Everything else is just a fun topic of conversation, and I am enjoying your thoughtful input for sure!

On a side note, someone thought this air and fuel system was okay. Will be interesting to see how the compression test turns out.
That's a 12V generator, and it sort of almost works. Might make a nice housing for an alternator conversion, later down the road.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Yes it can. Eventually it comes back to the simplicity of what works.
My thought after looking over the loader on this specific tractor, noting the amount of wear on the valve spools, the amount of repairs on the bucket, and the reasonable condition of the tractor steering, spindle thrust bearings, etc., is that this thing has been worked hard for decades, and it still works. Hard to argue against a time proven reality.
With that in mind, and the cheap price of replacement parts, it shouldn't be hard or expensive to get this back in shape. With reasonably intelligent use it should workout okay for the limited duty on this property. For large or heavy work, we have some pretty reasonable rental houses in our area with plenty of proper equipment.
The original question was in regards to the availability of reproduced wheel weights. Everything else is just a fun topic of conversation, and I am enjoying your thoughtful input for sure!

On a side note, someone thought this air and fuel system was okay. Will be interesting to see how the compression test turns out.
That's a 12V generator, and it sort of almost works. Might make a nice housing for an alternator conversion, later down the road.
View attachment 153116

Actually Scott you shouldn’t have to look for reproduction wheel weights , 28” rims are the most common size so finding used ones shouldn’t be a problem . Yes that is one good thing about all of these Fords they have been worked for 60/70/80 years and they are still going and they will be going after we are all dead ! The sheer number of tractors produced along with the amount still around and the reproduction parts being made should keep them running for a long time . Tony