Ford Powermaster 801 - trying to get running. Gasoline, 1957-58, electrical / ignition mainly.

[58 Impala]

I have a 134 cu in 601 that I installed the Pertonix ignition on. Pretty sure i hooked it up correctly. But, like my wife says "you could be wrong". It won't fire is the problem. Replaced coil as well. Have voltage to the coil. HELP

 

[Jim.ME]

I have a 134 cu in 601 that I installed the Pertonix ignition on. Pretty sure i hooked it up correctly. But, like my wife says "you could be wrong". It won't fire is the problem. Replaced coil as well. Have voltage to the coil. HELP

I first thing I am going to suggest for help is to start a new thread of your own. Tagging into some else's thread generally adds confusion as answers will be made seen by both parties, but they may only apply to one. Tell what tractor you have, details about it (such as 6 or 12 volt, positive or negative ground, original or conversion, etc.), and the issues. In the case of your post here, you are pretty sure you hooked it up right, but we can't see what you did. Which Pertronix you have and a sketch of how you have it wired would be one thing to help. Include what you have checked and done trying to solve it. The same applies to tagging on to old threads, use a link to reference, if needed, but start your own thread.

 

[58 Impala]

I first thing I am going to suggest for help is to start a new thread of your own. Tagging into some else's thread generally adds confusion as answers will be made seen by both parties, but they may only apply to one. Tell what tractor you have, details about it (such as 6 or 12 volt, positive or negative ground, original or conversion, etc.), and the issues. In the case of your post here, you are pretty sure you hooked it up right, but we can't see what you did. Which Pertronix you have and a sketch of how you have it wired would be one thing to help. Include what you have checked and done trying to solve it. The same applies to tagging on to old threads, use a link to reference, if needed, but start your own thread.

I'm new. Sorry if I confused anyone. I'll move on.

 

[58 Impala]

Having problems with Pertronix Ignition. Am I in the right place for help?

 

[Jim.ME]

I'm new. Sorry if I confused anyone. I'll move on.

You don't need to "move on", that was not my intent. My point is it will be easier for people to help you if they are not dealing with the original poster's problem and your issues in the same thread. Just use the red "Post Thread" button at the top of the thread list and lay out your issues. I'm just trying to set you up to get the best and most direct help.

 

[Jim.ME]

Having problems with Pertronix Ignition. Am I in the right place for help?

I sent you a conversation. Click on the envelope up top at the right of your user name.

 

[SteelSteed]

Cats and Kittens, grab your mittens!!!!

Finally felt up to working on 801 again. Figured out the hex swaged into the distributor shaft for the oil pump hex shaft had tiny burr(s) that were preventing distributor from seating. Hard to believe they locked it up that hard.
Had to make one new wire, grab the battery and it cranked up super quick.
Did not feel like tearing new distributor apart and installing electronic ignition. Will save that for another day (probably a mistake). Going to run it as is for a bit.

Took vid of it running, too large to upload.

Thank you all for your help! Could not have done it without you.

 

[SteelSteed]

Update May 31, 2026
After having trouble on and off 841 finally quit running much at all, acting again like carb was plugging or something.
Long (9-month) story short:
I installed a new gas tank bc so much rust in it;
figured out solenoid/relay/starter and alternator/coil were wired like an 800, pulled relay, new solenoid and wired correctly;
alternator wire to light / diode was backfeeding;
key switch wire came apart in my hand, re-terminated anc cleaned and lubed switch;
ALL the wiring was messed up in some way, built all-new wiring;
pulled fuel gauge as it was inoperable and no sending unit in new, smaller tank and installed ammeter;
installed new Edelbrock fireball internal resisted coil bc all NAPA had;
plugs were new by PO but I didn’t check gap, were 0.022-0.027 (0.035 for 12v points);
FINALLY got to where only thing could be distributor. All this work got it started and running crappy. I got lucky and was moving distributor whilst pushing starter/safety button and got a little buzz. Insulator for prime conductor / screw wired from coil + was bad. Pulled cap (again!) and checked conductor on rotor for height and it was loose, fell apart in my hand after I wiggled it. Points looked burned and burn mark under condenser wire.
Remembered the electronic ignition I bought for the original distributor and installed it couple days ago between rains. Bunch of carbon under advance weights, I guess from all the shorting. Terminated the wires to the coil today and reassembled distributor with the rotor from the old distributor. It cranked up effortlessly and ran great! Drug the blade on the road a little and did some shredding. Ran awesome, better than ever!
Will pull the plugs again and gap to 0.045 for the electronic ignition, but it was so nice to have it running I didn’t want to stop today.
Thanks everyone for the help. I hope all the things I found wrong give anyone reading this some ideas to look for if they have trouble.
Thanks again,
SS

 

[used red MN]

Will pull the plugs again and gap to 0.045 for the electronic ignition,

Where do you get the 0.045” gap spec? Does Pertronix say this is what you should run? I wouldn’t stray to much from the 0.025” factory spec, the ground electrode on the plugs will be skewed out of position at those wider gaps. Could possibly run them at 0.030” but I personally wouldn’t go much more than that. Maybe others opinions differ from mine.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Where do you get the 0.045” gap spec? Does Pertronix say this is what you should run? I wouldn’t stray to much from the 0.025” factory spec, the ground electrode on the plugs will be skewed out of position at those wider gaps. Could possibly run them at 0.030” but I personally wouldn’t go much more than that. Maybe others opinions differ from mine.

The .045 gap is fine on the 437 Autolite plugs been running them like that since I first was testing those kits for Pertronix years ago . .025 for 6 volt systems , .035 for standard 12 volt systems and .045 for the high voltage electronic ignition systems works fine with just about any brand of spark plugs . You can’t however go wider than that because as you say you can’t keep the electrodes in alignment . Pertronix will fire .065 gap spark plug with no problems just depends on the spark plugs . I still the run the very first test unit from Pertronix which was a complete plate that had to be changed in the distributor . You removed the original distributor plate for the points and condenser and replaced it with the Pertronix plate . That one must have about 5,000 hours on it by now . Thanks Tony

 

[SteelSteed]

Where do you get the 0.045” gap spec? Does Pertronix say this is what you should run? I wouldn’t stray to much from the 0.025” factory spec, the ground electrode on the plugs will be skewed out of position at those wider gaps. Could possibly run them at 0.030” but I personally wouldn’t go much more than that. Maybe others opinions differ from mine.

I don’t remember.
I had read 0.025 for 6v points, 0.035 for 12v points, 0.045 for 12v points.
The o.025 is Ford spec, I thought the 0.035 was also Ford spec on 12v factory. I will have to check and see if the 0.045 was on the EI manufacturer’s site. Was not Pertronix.
I bought a pair of gapping pliers from Summit years ago. I can set gaps with the electrode centered pretty easily.

 

[Jim.ME]

I don’t remember.
I had read 0.025 for 6v points, 0.035 for 12v points, 0.045 for 12v points.
The o.025 is Ford spec, I thought the 0.035 was also Ford spec on 12v factory. I will have to check and see if the 0.045 was on the EI manufacturer’s site. Was not Pertronix.
I bought a pair of gapping pliers from Summit years ago. I can set gaps with the electrode centered pretty easily.

The Ford service manual says .024" to .026" gap for distributor point contacts.

Plug gap is given as .025" to .028" for gasoline engines, that would apply 6 and I don't know of a need to change the point gap when a 6-to-12-volt conversion is made. If the electronic ignition manufacturer, of the unit you chose to use, specifies a plug and plug gap for their unit you would have to use their info, it is not going to be in the manuals. And might not be the same for all EI manufacturers.

 

[SteelSteed]

Something I’d forgotten to add;
I did not know the aftermarket distributors have smaller holes for the insulator / prime conductor than stock distributors. Probably a contributor to the failure of the insulator. It is 1/4” and the conductor/screw 3/16-ish so not much insulation.
The silicon seal for the EI wires in the kit tore when I was trying to pull it thru the insulator hole. Mfg said they didn’t stock seals for smaller aftermarket holes, so I found a set of grommets on Amazon. Pushed appropriate grommet thru and sealed the remaining space around the wires with a piece of black Sugru. Sugru is wonderful stuff!!!

 

[SteelSteed]

The Ford service manual says .024" to .026" gap for distributor point contacts.

Plug gap is given as .025" to .028" for gasoline engines, that would apply 6 and I don't know of a need to change the point gap when a 6-to-12-volt conversion is made. If the electronic ignition manufacturer, of the unit you chose to use, specifies a plug and plug gap for their unit you would have to use their info, it is not going to be in the manuals. And might not be the same for all EI manufacturers.

I did install new Autolite 437 plugs and gapped them to 0.035.
Didn’t reuse old ones just wanted to see what they were gapped to.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

The Ford service manual says .024" to .026" gap for distributor point contacts.

Plug gap is given as .025" to .028" for gasoline engines, that would apply 6 and I don't know of a need to change the point gap when a 6-to-12-volt conversion is made. If the electronic ignition manufacturer, of the unit you chose to use, specifies a plug and plug gap for their unit you would have to use their info, it is not going to be in the manuals. And might not be the same for all EI manufacturers.

Everything you have listed is correct for 6 volt systems . Point gap will not change with 12 volt spark plug gap will . (When was the last time you owned a car or truck that was 12 volt and had spark plugs gapped at .025 , never always been .035 before HEI ignitions) As voltage increases spark plug gap increases . When you get into any Factory High Voltage Electronic Ignition spark plug gap increases for a larger , hotter spark in order to get a better spark the gap has to be larger . Look at any GM HEI , Ford or Chrysler spark plug gap for the first electronic ignition equipped cars and trucks when it first came out in the 70’s they used gaps up more than .065 . The problem is the older spark plugs for these engines don’t always gap correctly because these particular spark plugs were not designed for that large of a gap . As was mentioned about Spark plug gapping tools that works perfectly . From years of Drag Racing experience Spark plug gapping and indexing is just another detail to make horsepower . Thanks Tony

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Update May 31, 2026
After having trouble on and off 841 finally quit running much at all, acting again like carb was plugging or something.
Long (9-month) story short:
I installed a new gas tank bc so much rust in it;
figured out solenoid/relay/starter and alternator/coil were wired like an 800, pulled relay, new solenoid and wired correctly;
alternator wire to light / diode was backfeeding;
key switch wire came apart in my hand, re-terminated anc cleaned and lubed switch;
ALL the wiring was messed up in some way, built all-new wiring;
pulled fuel gauge as it was inoperable and no sending unit in new, smaller tank and installed ammeter;
installed new Edelbrock fireball internal resisted coil bc all NAPA had;
plugs were new by PO but I didn’t check gap, were 0.022-0.027 (0.035 for 12v points);
FINALLY got to where only thing could be distributor. All this work got it started and running crappy. I got lucky and was moving distributor whilst pushing starter/safety button and got a little buzz. Insulator for prime conductor / screw wired from coil + was bad. Pulled cap (again!) and checked conductor on rotor for height and it was loose, fell apart in my hand after I wiggled it. Points looked burned and burn mark under condenser wire.
Remembered the electronic ignition I bought for the original distributor and installed it couple days ago between rains. Bunch of carbon under advance weights, I guess from all the shorting. Terminated the wires to the coil today and reassembled distributor with the rotor from the old distributor. It cranked up effortlessly and ran great! Drug the blade on the road a little and did some shredding. Ran awesome, better than ever!
Will pull the plugs again and gap to 0.045 for the electronic ignition, but it was so nice to have it running I didn’t want to stop today.
Thanks everyone for the help. I hope all the things I found wrong give anyone reading this some ideas to look for if they have trouble.
Thanks again,
SS

I had no idea that this was an update to an older post until I read your updated date then I noticed the two year old dates . I didn’t know you drag an older post up and repost as a new one then update it . There is so much incorrect info in some of the old posts I was going to update them until I saw the dates . Tony

 

[Jim.ME]

I had no idea that this was an update to an older post until I read your updated date then I noticed the two year old dates . I didn’t know you drag an older post up and repost as a new one then update it . There is so much incorrect info in some of the old posts I was going to update them until I saw the dates . Tony

Making a reply to an old thread automatically moves it to the top as a new one. So far this site has chosen not to lock old threads from accepting replies, as some sites do. This often does cause confusion, particularly when someone new tags on to an old thread started by someone else. The later post often gets ignored as people reply to the original poster.

 

[Jim.ME]

Everything you have listed is correct for 6 volt systems . Point gap will not change with 12 volt spark plug gap will . (When was the last time you owned a car or truck that was 12 volt and had spark plugs gapped at .025 , never always been .035 before HEI ignitions) As voltage increases spark plug gap increases . When you get into any Factory High Voltage Electronic Ignition spark plug gap increases for a larger , hotter spark in order to get a better spark the gap has to be larger . Look at any GM HEI , Ford or Chrysler spark plug gap for the first electronic ignition equipped cars and trucks when it first came out in the 70’s they used gaps up more than .065 . The problem is the older spark plugs for these engines don’t always gap correctly because these particular spark plugs were not designed for that large of a gap . As was mentioned about Spark plug gapping tools that works perfectly . From years of Drag Racing experience Spark plug gapping and indexing is just another detail to make horsepower . Thanks Tony

I was posting what the manuals specify. I will not disagree with you that .035" is a common plug gap for 12-volt systems in highway vehicles and some equipment used that plug gap as well. I agree that gap will work for 6-volt systems converted to 12-volts and can work on many 6-volt systems that have good coils.

If you look at a Ford service manual for the 2000-7000 tractors, which were 12-volt systems as original, the manual calls out 0.023" to 0.027" plug gap for the gasoline engines and 0.018" to 0.022" for LP engines. These specifications fall in line with the specs from the manual for earlier 6-volt model specs I posted before.

Best regards
Jim

 

[Keith Williams]

I was posting what the manuals specify. I will not disagree with you that .035" is a common plug gap for 12-volt systems in highway vehicles and some equipment used that plug gap as well. I agree that gap will work for 6-volt systems converted to 12-volts and can work on many 6-volt systems that have good coils.

If you look at a Ford service manual for the 2000-7000 tractors, which were 12-volt systems as original, the manual calls out 0.023" to 0.027" plug gap for the gasoline engines and 0.018" to 0.022" for LP engines. These specifications fall in line with the specs from the manual for earlier 6-volt model specs I posted before.

Best regards
Jim

Jim you are correct on the 12 V Tractors from the factory. The difference is that those tractors used a resistive wire between the Key and the coil to lower the effective voltage the coil sees to around 6 volts. They use a coil that is marked 12 volts WITH external resistance in those circumstances.

Taking a 6 volt tractor and rewiring to 12 volts without a Ballast resister or other current limiting device, is a different animal.

PS Tony, it is good to see you back! I enjoy the posts you make and the vast knowledge you add.
PPS, Jim, you also add a great deal of knowledge! I was just adding a little context as to why thing are as they are.
Keith

 

[Sean in PA]

If you change a 6 volt system to 12 volts and continue to use the original coil, you have to add resistance to the voltage supply to the primary of the coil to prevent premature aging/damage to the coil and the points. Doesn't doing that negate the voltage change for the coil so that the plug gap shouldn't change?