2590 504 Rebuild Advice Needed.

[jogl]

My plough horse, the 2590 is all of a sudden getting coolant in the oil.

I bypassed the engine oil cooler and gave her a run. There is no oil coming out of the cooler and there is still coolant getting into the oil.

So it looks like head gasket and / or cavitated sleeves.

If I do an in frame what is involved in getting the sleeves out and in. I have done in frames and out of frames on dry sleeves before but I have never done a wet sleeved engine. I read somewhere that wet sleeves are easier than dry to get in. Is that true?

So I am planning an inframe, heads done, sleeves, rings, roll in bearings, etc.

Any other advice for my first time in a 504?

Thanks,
JP.

 

[casecollectorsc]

When you get the sleeves out, take a light hammer and tap around the top edge of the sleeves. If a cracked sleeve the flange will break away when you tap on it.

 

[jogl]

Are the sleeves hard to pull like on a dry sleeve engine? On dry sleeves I usually weld beads after first unsuccessful attempt with a puller.

 

[casecollectorsc]

Are the sleeves hard to pull like on a dry sleeve engine? On dry sleeves I usually weld beads after first unsuccessful attempt with a puller.

With a sleeve puller they come out fairly easy. Lower block needs to be cleaned good and check for pits where the o ring goes.

 

[jon f mn]

The wet sleeves are very easy to remove compared to dry sleeves. The sleeves do Crack, and a head gasket could be your problem and cavitation too, but most likely is the o-rings at the bottom of the sleeves have started leaking. That doesn't change much as the end result is the same, its just the most common. As to an inframe, as long as the crank is good and the rear seal isn't leaking that is a fi e way to handle it. The most common reason for failure after an overhaul on a case is from failing to properly re-torque the heads properly after re-assembly. Get a good book and do it exactly as it says and you should be fine.

As to pulling the sleeves, a simple puller made from a couple pieces of steel tube and threaded rod is what I use. Cut one so it wont pull through the sleeve a d the other as wide as the block. I stand a couple sockets under the top one and just tighten and the sleeves should pop out, especially since its a running engine. And as said, check for pitting in the lower bore and check stand out on the sleeves.

 

[jogl]

If it turns out to be the orings at the bottom of the sleeves leaking and the sleeves and pistons and rings look OK can it be re-assembled with new orings?

If there is pitting in the lower bore how would I repair that?

Thanks,
JP.

 

[casecollectorsc]

If it turns out to be the orings at the bottom of the sleeves leaking and the sleeves and pistons and rings look OK can it be re-assembled with new orings?

If there is pitting in the lower bore how would I repair that?

Thanks,
JP.

A quick fix is to sand the area good and smear JB weld on the pitted area let dry good and sand smooth.

 

[Micah2]

Drop the pan and get a cooling system pressure tester and see if you see anything leaking. We had coolant in the oil on our 1070 and it ended up being the cylinder o rings but I doubt oil would get into the coolant that way without you getting coolant in the oil.

 

[jon f mn]

If it turns out to be the orings at the bottom of the sleeves leaking and the sleeves and pistons and rings look OK can it be re-assembled with new orings?

If there is pitting in the lower bore how would I repair that?

Thanks,
JP.

You can, but an engine kit is really not that much more. I think a head gasket kit is around $500 and a complete kit was less than $2k. Same labor. And Steve is correct on the pitting. I used jb weld and a cylinder hone to smooth them after.

 

[Bill in Colo]

My plough horse, the 2590 is all of a sudden getting coolant in the oil.

I bypassed the engine oil cooler and gave her a run. There is no oil coming out of the cooler and there is still coolant getting into the oil.

So it looks like head gasket and / or cavitated sleeves.

If I do an in frame what is involved in getting the sleeves out and in. I have done in frames and out of frames on dry sleeves before but I have never done a wet sleeved engine. I read somewhere that wet sleeves are easier than dry to get in. Is that true?

So I am planning an inframe, heads done, sleeves, rings, roll in bearings, etc.

Any other advice for my first time in a 504?

Thanks,
JP.

Be sure to test the oil cooler, I lost a 504 to cooler failure, in testing water temp had to be over 180 degrees to leak at 20psi.

 

[jogl]

Pretty sure the cooler is not the culprit. That was the first thing I tested.

The tractor has been sitting without running for over a week (with oil cooler disconnected). Every couple days I have drained a little from the oil pan and there is always a little more coolant in the oil. So it seems that coolant is getting into the oil even when the engine is not running. Really points to liners or liner o-rings I think.

P.S.: Bill, you've been around here for a LONG time!

 

[Brokengun]

If you drop the pan and pressure the coolant system with a little pressure you can place a piece of cardboard under the engine and the leaking o-ring or cracked sleeve will leak in that spot beneath the engine that corresponds to the leaking cylinder.

We over-hauled an 800 case about 35 years ago and we had an issue with an o-ring. The way we found the problem was as I described; Pull the pan, pressure the cooling system and place cardboard under the engine so we could find the leak, by doing that we did not have to pull both heads and pull ALL of the sleeves. to find our problem.

Now; some have suggested that going head and overhauling the tractor isn't much more work or money. Why that maybe true sometimes its worth discovering the problem making sure your money is not wasted chasing other issues.

{ I just looked up some parts for a 2590 from Case and Holy Cow are they ever proud of them ! }

 

[Micah2]

For our 1070 I called mahle and got connecting rod bearings and piston rings from them. Definitely recommend their stuff.

 

[jogl]

Plan to drop the pan and pressurize the cooling system. Will check the bearings while there, I'm a little worried about how the coolant may have affected them.

Will then decide what to do from there. It will be interesting to see if the crank is still standard size. I'm pretty sure that at some time in the past somebody swapped a different engine into this old beast.

Haven't had a chance to get it into the shop yet. MF 3505 is pulling the plough at a little less that 2/3 the speed that I usually go with the 2590.

 

[Brokengun]

Sounds like you have a plan.

I had an engine get a dose of anti-freeze once and it did mess with the bearings.

 

[Micah2]

Our 1070 lost so much coolant into the oil that it overheated badly. The crank bearings were fine but the connecting rod bearings didn't look so good. The crank just got cleaned up with scothbrite and new bearings.

 

[Brokengun]

I do not know how much it helped but I took the advice of an engine re-builder and added a quart of marvel mystery oil in with the engine oil.

The claim they made was the mystery oil would help counter the effects of the antifreeze. Since I normally run a break in oil for about 10 hours then drain and change the oil. I figured the mystery oil was an ok choice.

Again I do not know if it helped or not but I was tired of spending money on the engine