4610 Fuel pump leak question

[Jawjadawg]

This Lucas is leaking from the bottom, perhaps you can see the straight line reflecting fluid where it appears to be leaking.

I ran it out of fuel. Added more fuel and limped it up to my barn where it died. I've bled the system several times and got it to crank briefly but not again. Full rebuild or just replace the seals in place?

 

[Jawjadawg]

did I word my question properly? I’m wondering if it’s possible to fix the leak with the fuel pump on the tractor, or if my symptoms sound like I need the unit rebuilt

 

[Destroked 450]

Is it dripping fuel or just wet, 4610 was produced 1982-1989 so if the pump is original it’s around 40 years old. At that age it’s probably got some wear and should be gone through. Due to the high risk of dirt contamination and/or loss components other than removing the regulator assembly to clean the screen I don’t do any work on the pump with it still mounted on the engine

After running it out of fuel when you got it running again it should not have run poorly or died once you got to the barn, unless you have a fuel restriction, tank screen in the fuel valve, filter or regulator valve screen are the most common fuel restriction locations

 

[Jawjadawg]

Thank you. It is dripping. I replaced the fuel shutoff valve and interior screen because there was a non factory bolt rigged up by the previous owner as the stop that also dripped.

I found an outfit online that rebuilds these and their reviews are positive. I guess I should just send it to them and stop hoping for the $10 fix. At the price of diesel, stopping that drip will pay for itself before too long.

 

[Sean in PA]

There is a member here with the handle Dieseltech. He is a diesel mechanic and he rebuilds those pumps at a reasonable rate. I have heard nothing but praise from anyone that has used him for both the quality of his work and the prices he charges. Here is a link to his profile:

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/members/dieseltech.145391/

Click on the button on that page that says "Send direct message" to send him a message asking if he would rebuild yours.

 

[Eman85]

I highly doubt your fix will be 2 figures, need to at least add a zero and change the front number. I don't understand the limping to the barn unless you ran it out and got trash to clog the in tank screen or the other filters. I'd get it to run good again BEFORE removing the pump. I'd say it can't be resealed without removal and complete disassembly. 40yo tractor is you plan on keeping it and using it the shop should rebuild it and bench test it. In the just want to get the leak fixed world with some care and patience you can replace the seals only.

 

[Jawjadawg]

I’m considering your advice to get it running good before removing the injection pump; however, now you’ve got me thinking if I can’t get it to crank again there might be something else wrong. Clearly that’s a correct statement – there might be something else wrong. I replaced the shut off valve and the strainer. I did not replace the fuel filter yet because it is basically brand new. I’ll look at it when I get down there this morning. What else could be restricting the fuel to keep it from starting other than the fuel injection pump being trashed? There isn’t a lift pump it’s gravity fed. Is there anything I should be blowing out with air?

 

[Destroked 450]

Remove the small bleeder screw on the side of the injection pump, then crank the engine over a few turns. Fuel should squirt out the bleed hole a foot or two, if not there is a fuel restriction somewhere
Tank valve screen, fuel filter, pressure regulator screen are the 3 locations fuel is usually restricted
Although there is no lift pump there is a small vane style transfer pump in the back of the injection pump, they rarely ever fail

 

[Eman85]

I replaced the shut off valve and the strainer.
Was this before or after the running out of fuel? If before then it might have clogged the screen if there was any debris in the tank. Do the fuel flow tests.

 

[Jawjadawg]

It was after. When I remove the bleed screw on the pump, fuel barely squirts after turning the key. The screen filter on the end of the injection pump nearest the filter and starter was clean. When I pulled the filter, there was kind of rusty sediment on top of it on the metal screen, but the white paper below it I could see looked fairly clean. Does that mean anything in regards to the filter? I don’t have one handy to throw in there. I’m worried that sediment made it through and is in the pump. How likely is that? The fuel filter was changed very recently, like less than 10-15 hours ago. It’s a napa

I can’t get much fuel to flow at the injectors with the lines cracked. Slight bubbles. Small drops when the bubbles pass. I’ve done all three injectors at the same time and I’ve done one at a time starting at each end. Which is another question – what is the proper process? All three at the same time or one at a time?

 

[Destroked 450]

NAPA filter ! That's some information I wish was mentioned at the beginning
This is a very common mistake made when changing filters that can cause issues when a NAPA filter is installed

 

[Destroked 450]

When you removed the screen from the end of the pump did you remove the regulator assembly from the back of the pump and then disassemble it or did you remove the screen with the regulator still on the pump.

 

[Jawjadawg]

When you removed the screen from the end of the pump did you remove the regulator assembly from the back of the pump and then disassemble it or did you remove the screen with the regulator still on the pump.

I removed the return line, then removed the larger retaining nut. Fished out the screen assembly and the spring beneath it. Checked it all out and reassembled. I’m assuming I checked the right thing. The screen is a hollow screen tube about an inch or so long. Sits vertically.

I’ll have to take a look at that filter. Is your picture the bottom of the filter? That’s not how mine looks. The gasket fits around the bottom edge and sits along the inside edge of the bottom of the cup. You can see down inside the filter from the top.

 

[Jawjadawg]

Napa Gold 3166

 

[showcrop]

T E R M I N O L O G Y. What does "crank" mean to you???? To must of us it is what the starter motor does to the motor prior to the motor starting and running. Your initial post screams INCOMPLETE BLEEDING!!! Maybe your pump needs rebuilding, most likely you do not have such a coincidence. You choose to give virtually no history. The filter situation that Destroked 450 described to you is a good possibility, he knows these old Fords.. That line, which I do see, tells nothing about where the leak really is. It could be two inches higher. Yes, the tractor is around forty years old, but this could mean that the pump went thirty years before a rebuild, which would be unusual. Rebuilders nearly always stamp a job # onto a pump that they rebuild. You may find three stamps on yours. Just go back and review the bleed procedure, do it right, and go to work.

 

[Jim.ME]

View attachment 154576
Napa Gold 3166

I believe Wix is not supplying many of NAPA filters anymore, so the fuel filters at NAPA may now be the perforated top as shown in your picture. With the perforated top the gasket in the slot is no longer an issue of possible fuel blockage.

 

[Destroked 450]

The filter I posted is the old style Wix/NAPA filter with the narrow fuel slot around the outer edge at the top, photo is the top of the filter and some have mistakenly placed the rubber seal onside the lip of the filter thus closing off the fuel slot
You’re newer style NAPA filter is a different design

 

[Jawjadawg]

T E R M I N O L O G Y. What does "crank" mean to you???? To must of us it is what the starter motor does to the motor prior to the motor starting and running. Your initial post screams INCOMPLETE BLEEDING!!! Maybe your pump needs rebuilding, most likely you do not have such a coincidence. You choose to give virtually no history. The filter situation that Destroked 450 described to you is a good possibility, he knows these old Fords.. That line, which I do see, tells nothing about where the leak really is. It could be two inches higher. Yes, the tractor is around forty years old, but this could mean that the pump went thirty years before a rebuild, which would be unusual. Rebuilders nearly always stamp a job # onto a pump that they rebuild. You may find three stamps on yours. Just go back and review the bleed procedure, do it right, and go to work.

FWIW, your reply is of zero assistance. I’m trying to learn something and am greatly appreciative of the knowledge shared by these other gentlemen. I’m answering the best way I know how.

Crank to me means turn the key. I’ve run the battery down once trying to crank it. When I bleed the fuel filter, fuel will gush out the top. When I bleed the pump, fuel will bubble and then trickle out of the hole. It’s still a decent stream but not like out of the top of the fuel filter. When I crank the motor with the injection pump bleed screw removed, fuel barely burps out of the hole.

 

[Jawjadawg]

When you removed the screen from the end of the pump did you remove the regulator assembly from the back of the pump and then disassemble it or did you remove the screen with the regulator still on the pump.

I don’t think I answered this properly earlier. I left the regulator on the pump.

 

[Destroked 450]

There’s a lot of components inside the regulator assembly

Often when removing the screen (#8) it is stuck to the regulator sleeve (#6), if the sleeve comes up very far plunger (#5) and spring (#10) can drop thru the sleeve and out of place
First time I pulled the screen on the pump out in the field, plug (#9) dropped out and was lost forever. Today I remove the regulator and take it to a flat surface to work on, when reassembling often spring (#4) will drop into it’s bore sideways so another detail to pay attention to