Ford 3000 diesel rebuilt Simms injector pump - still fuel starved

[tniem]

Hi, I am new to the forum and looked through 25 pages of existing threads, if someone can direct me I'll go that route.

My problem is I've installed a rebuilt Simms injector pump that I picked up from England to "save money". I've installed it and believe I set timing correctly-- 19 deg btdc on flywheel and align the marks on the pump gear/wheel. The tractor starts but will not stay running. After multiple guesses I called in a local diesel mechanic. He changed out the fuel filters and assembly, the tank stop cock, the hand primer pump (twice) with some but not enough improvement. I contacted the rebuild company and they suggested a direct connect between tank and injector pump to rule out issues with the pump. (I haven't tried this and mechanic did not try bypass.) Could it be a poorly timed injector pump? From my reading it should knock or smoke depending upon too advanced or behind.
As mentioned, if there is another thread that already addresses this send me to it.

My son suggested that since I got the Simms from England it probably only pumps in liters.

 

[tniem]

Yesterday I bypassed the fuel filters and connected the fuel tank to the primer pump then to the injector pump. The tractor ran well at high and low speeds and color in smoke essentially went away after the tractor warmed up. So, I believe the Simms pump is installed and timed correctly, now my focus is the dual filters and piping. I'm guessing I'm either getting air in the line or a blockage. The dual filters have been changed and the stop cock for the fuel tank has changed.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Destroked 450]

It’s just a matter of checking fuel flow
Check flow come from the tank valve, tank valve to rear filter, rear filter to lift pump, operate lift pump to check flow to front filter, lastly front filter to inj pump

 

[sotxbill]

Yesterday I bypassed the fuel filters and connected the fuel tank to the primer pump then to the injector pump. The tractor ran well at high and low speeds and color in smoke essentially went away after the tractor warmed up. So, I believe the Simms pump is installed and timed correctly, now my focus is the dual filters and piping. I'm guessing I'm either getting air in the line or a blockage. The dual filters have been changed and the stop cock for the fuel tank has changed.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Also the side fuel pumps on the simms pump can have a bad diaphram or stuck valve. The replacement pumps are pretty cheaply made.

 

[tniem]

Ok, checking fuel filters now.
For the dual fuel filters I know where the pump to filter line attaches- back inside ( arrow to filter) , back outside ( arrow out) is plugged.
Front outside (arrow out) connects to injector pump.
What does front inside ( arrow into filter) connect to? Doee we at this go to cold start solenoid?

 

[tniem]

Ok, checking fuel filters now.
For the dual fuel filters I know where the pump to filter line attaches- back inside ( arrow to filter) , back outside ( arrow out) is plugged.
Front outside (arrow out) connects to injector pump.
What does front inside ( arrow into filter) connect to? Doee we at this go to cold start solenoid?

**Does this go to cold start solenoid?**

 

[tniem]

With tank connected to pump, then direct to injector pump tractor runs fine. So I’m guessing the tank shut off, pump and injector pump are all working properly.
Now to check filters….

 

[tniem]

With pump connected to filter I get a dribble of fuel from the outlet side of the filter. Should there be more? I’m thinking it should be similar to lift pump flow.

 

[SkipperII]

Digging back into the old memory bank. The early model thousand series, with dual fuel filters, were a complete PITA to get ll the air out of. Sometimes we would have to hook the overhead hoist to the front axle, and raise the front end to allow the air to rise. Or back the rear end into a ditch. Or just keep bleeding them untill the air finally cleared. Ford finally went to a single filter, and it corrected the problem.

 

[tniem]

It’s just a matter of checking fuel flow
Check flow come from the tank valve, tank valve to rear filter, rear filter to lift pump, operate lift pump to check flow to front filter, lastly front filter to inj pump

Destroked 450, what you’re saying makes some sense, although that’s not the way it was hooked up prior to new injector pump.

Tank to lift pump, lift pump to rear filter in, front filter out to simms
Pump. Just a dribble from filters when cranked.

 

[Harry in Ky]

ASSUMING you got the filter quad rings in the grooves up in the filter base and not on top of the filter elements, right? That was a notorious problem with Wix and NAPA filters before they changed back to filters with open tops.

 

[Jim.ME]

Not knowing what brand filters, you installed, the picture below shows a common issue that happens with the WIX type filters, which Harry mentioned. The CAV type with holes in the top does not have the same problem if the sealing ring gets inside the rim.

 

[tniem]

Harry in KY - The filters are new wix installed by a diesel mechanic so, I have not checked them but will the next time out. I was hoping and assuming they were installed correctly.

 

[tniem]

Thanks for the illustration Jim.ME, I will check these tomorrow.

 

[tniem]

I have attached a sketch of the fuel line connections.
I previously connected tank to lift pump to simms injector, tractor runs well.
Connected tank to lift pump to filters and cranked it up and only a dribble came out of the filter discharge. Not like what came out of the lift pump.
Plan to check filter gaskets tomorrow.

 

[Harry in Ky]

I don't know if the thermostart plumbing has any part in this, but I've never seen the thermostart tied into anything but return lines. NEVER connected to anything supply or filter related. I would suggest you get that out of the mix and see if it helps.

 

[Destroked 450]

There where 2 different dual filter bases and they plumbed differently, yours is the second type and is plumbed correctly
Since bypassing the filters get you sufficient fuel flow the issue must be in the filters
Remove the Wix filters and make sure the issue isn’t what Jim.ME mentioned in post #12

 

[tniem]

The rear wix filter appeared to be installed correctly. I did not check the front, but assumed it is installed correctly since the rear was installed correctly. Reprimed, started and ran for a little while then died.

I did buy a couple of napa filters, although I have not installed yet. I have a plug on order for the thermostart line to remove it (Per Harry in KY). I did put a 1/2" bolt in the hole that was not a 1/2-20, it's in only finger tight so I wouldn't cross thread. It appeared to work, no significant leak and no change in flow.

I'm thinking about pulling the filters and cranking the engine to make sure the filter assembly doesn't have a blockage, It seems possible with new filters that appear to be installed correctly....

There are leaks throughout the system as I check for flow. With the system only working at 3-5psi it doesn't make sense to me that the system would be pulling air in. If it is it would have to be between the lift pump and the filters, that part of the system is pressurized so it should leak, but not suck air. The tractor runs fine when filters are bypassed.

Someone suggested the lift pump is strong enough to feed the Simms injector, but not strong enough to push through the filters. While possible, I guess, It doesn't make sense to me that I should have sooo much loss across the filters.

At $25 on Amazon I could get a new filter assembly.

So, next steps....

A) disconnect lift pump to filter tube from filter and check flow. If good move to next step. If bad replace tube (I have one on hand)

1) Check front filter, if it appears wrong, reset prime and restart. If it appears correct, pull both filters and crank engine to see flow through assembly. If flow through rear appears good, reinstall rear filter and repeat.
2) If flow in rear looks good but front of assembly does not look good replace assembly.
3) If flow through assembly looks good in rear and front Install NAPA filters in attempt to maximize flow. Reprime and check.
I am thinking there is a blockage in the assembly, none of this makes sense if there isn't a blockage. Lines appear to be clear, filters appear to be installed correctly, what am I missing?

Once running, I have part cleaner to spray in the area to search out any leaks to allow me to tighten up the entire system. With all the checking I have not focused on system leaks.

 

[tniem]

UPDATE
I was out to check out the tractor today and follow the outline I provided in the last post. After not being convinced the 'new' WIX filters were working properly I took both off, as well as the filter assembly. All ports were clean as a whistle. As we remounted the assembly and reset the filters (gaskets set up in the assembly to eliminate blockage and new NAPA filters) I noticed the front filter was cock-eyed. As I loosened the top nut I noticed fuel spurted out of the hose connector - that was the AHA moment. We reconnected hoses and loosen the top nut on the front filter. The tractor started on the first crank and ran like a champ through a few shut downs and restarts. We even made a few passes with a bush hog to see how it would handle a load.
I never would have thought the solution all along was NOT over tightening something. Are there guidelines on tightness of filters. I missed that class....