I'm buying it: 1951 Ford 8N

[bradleydavidgood]

Went to see my uncle yesterday. He's had this one for decades in the garage. He had the engine rebuilt 20 years ago and only ran it a small amount of hours after that. Then it had issues with the points and starting, and some mechanic changed the timing. But there was no issue with timing and he knew it. Then it sat for 20 years because he didn't have anyone local to get it going again.

I made sure the motor turned and agreed to buy it as is for $1750.

I'll pick it up in a few days. Need a heavy duty trailer with a winch and I called the guy I know about that this morning.

My immediate plan is to convert to 12V negative electronic ignition, set the timing by marks or however you do it, soak the pistons with some fluid of some kind, and get her going. I do not want to fool with the current 6V positive ground and points.

I would like advice on the conversion and where to get parts. I was thinking of getting the part from yesterday's tractor.

I'm guessing I will replace the 20 year old wires and plugs, the ignition/distributor thing and coil, the battery, and examine the battery and starter cables and clamps more carefully.

Thanks for the help!

 

[bradleydavidgood]

 

[bradleydavidgood]

 

[bradleydavidgood]

Serial number is 8N355555.

Key specs for your 1951 Ford 8N

Spec	Ford 8N
Engine	Ford 2.0L / 119.7 ci, 4-cylinder gasoline
Bore/stroke	3.188" × 3.75"
Compression	6.7:1 after serial #85000
Rated RPM	2000 rpm
Firing order	1-2-4-3
Electrical, stock	6V, positive ground, generator
Transmission	4 forward / 1 reverse
PTO	Rear, transmission-driven
PTO size	1-1/8" 545 rpm style
Hydraulics	5 gal system, 1700 psi, 2.85 gpm
Rear lift	800 lb
Fuel capacity	10 gal
Engine oil capacity	6 qt
Coolant capacity	12 qt
Weight	2,410 lb shipping / 2,717 lb operating
Wheelbase	70"
Length	115"
Width	64.75"

Engine specs and capacities are from TractorData’s Ford 8N engine/spec pages. Dimensions and weight are from TractorData’s dimensions page.

Because your serial number is well after 263844, it should be the later side-mount distributor style, not front-mount. Yesterday’s Tractors lists front-mount 8N distributors as fitting serial numbers up to 263843.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Interesting. At some time in its life that tractor had a Sauder loader and/or front blade on it. Look under the differential for the socket mount that goes with these brackets. You may find the actual implement(s) laying around somewhere.

TOH

 

[Eman85]

Nice tractor, I have a 51. Your time and money but I would get it running as it is first before changing a lot of parts. don't understand the changing timing and it not running again part. Do all of the basics first especially compression test.

 

[bradleydavidgood]

Interesting. At some time in its life that tractor had a Sauder loader and/or front blade on it. Look under the differential for the socket mount that goes with these brackets. You may find the actual implement(s) laying around somewhere.

TOH

View attachment 156767

Good to know, will do thanks!

 

[bradleydavidgood]

Nice tractor, I have a 51. Your time and money but I would get it running as it is first before changing a lot of parts. don't understand the changing timing and it not running again part. Do all of the basics first especially compression test.

He had it rebuilt, it ran fine for a while. Then it had issues starting. Owner figured there was nothing wrong with the timing because timing didn't change. But a new mechanic thought it was a timing issue and changed the timing. Hasn't run since. 20 years.

I figure it was a points problem, and still is, but now it's points and timing.

I don't want to mess with the points, I just want to convert to 12V negative ground, and electronic ignition, set the timing by marks if that is possible, and try to start it up.

I don't think a compression test is necessary as the first step because the engine was rebuilt and it ran really well after the rebuild and only has a very small amount of hours after that rebuild.

 

[soaked]

Hi bradleydavidgood,
Yes, get your parts here!
So its pull the hood, install new 12 volt conversion, and Pertronix, rebuild the carb, or put on a spare, clean or replace the gas tank, then try to fire it up?

Ive had joy leaving the genny, and regulator, but taking the wires off and taping em up. Then starting with 12 volt battery neg ground, with old wires, on points and 6v coil. Would test the hydros, and take for a short drive testing the trans, clutch, steering, etc. (Rigged a temp fuel tank)


The sidemount camshaft has a press on gear (7RA 6255) that drives the distributor. If it slips, the timing will be off.

Once at 0° pry the flywheel down 4 marks to the 4° timing mark.
Your rotor should be pointing directly to the contact in the dist cap for #1 plug wire.

 

[Jim L WA]

I agree with Eman85. You are staring at the tractor and hearing stories from 20 years ago and you figure that the points are the problem.
When you convert to 12 volt, electronic ignition, switch to negative ground and it still won't start, then what are you going to do?
Ignition points systems were around for decades and worked just fine. Sure after many, many hours or thousands of miles, points had to be replaced during a tune-up, but overall the system worked well as did positive ground and 6 volts.
Get the tractor home, find top dead center, compression stroke on number 1 cylinder and check or set the timing, clean the contacts of the points and then check for spark at the plugs. The fuel system will need a good flushing as well as the carburetor.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

Agree with Jim.
Your tractor will not start or run better than with the stock 6V system.
The most you're out is a new set of points.

 

[504]

I just want to point out that the resistor plugs wires are the first place I would look at for not running. Maybe cross wired, check for resistor plugs you really don’t want them. Just little things that eat electoral power that ford never used. I am leaning toward crossed wires then look at timing

 

[Gary(Stoneboro)]

Serial number is 8N355555.

Key specs for your 1951 Ford 8N

Spec	Ford 8N
Engine	Ford 2.0L / 119.7 ci, 4-cylinder gasoline
Bore/stroke	3.188" × 3.75"
Compression	6.7:1 after serial #85000
Rated RPM	2000 rpm
Firing order	1-2-4-3
Electrical, stock	6V, positive ground, generator
Transmission	4 forward / 1 reverse
PTO	Rear, transmission-driven
PTO size	1-1/8" 545 rpm style
Hydraulics	5 gal system, 1700 psi, 2.85 gpm
Rear lift	800 lb
Fuel capacity	10 gal
Engine oil capacity	6 qt
Coolant capacity	12 qt
Weight	2,410 lb shipping / 2,717 lb operating
Wheelbase	70"
Length	115"
Width	64.75"

Engine specs and capacities are from TractorData’s Ford 8N engine/spec pages. Dimensions and weight are from TractorData’s dimensions page.

Because your serial number is well after 263844, it should be the later side-mount distributor style, not front-mount. Yesterday’s Tractors lists front-mount 8N distributors as fitting serial numbers up to 263843.

The serial number is 8N365555.

 

[Tall T]

Agree with Jim.
Your tractor will not start or run better than with the stock 6V system.
The most you're out is a new set of points.

I second that emotion as well.
It has become trendy and an image of an ignition panacea, as though there was always something deficient about the points system.
Points rotor and cap are a piece of cake to maintain.
I'd get your tractor all spruced up and running right before concluding that electronic will make a significant performance improvement
or solve any problems.

I sit corrected re. my little diatribe above.
There are obvious advantages to 12V like using other batteries to jump if needed and advantages to other modern upgrades.
If I ever drain my starting 12V battery on my van, it only takes a couple of minutes to reconnect the starter to the installed 6 volt.
Like reverse backup.

My Jubilee is 12 – just put a new alternator on – but still has points.

 

[boler76]

Went to see my uncle yesterday. He's had this one for decades in the garage. He had the engine rebuilt 20 years ago and only ran it a small amount of hours after that. Then it had issues with the points and starting, and some mechanic changed the timing. But there was no issue with timing and he knew it. Then it sat for 20 years because he didn't have anyone local to get it going again.

I made sure the motor turned and agreed to buy it as is for $1750.

I'll pick it up in a few days. Need a heavy duty trailer with a winch and I called the guy I know about that this morning.

My immediate plan is to convert to 12V negative electronic ignition, set the timing by marks or however you do it, soak the pistons with some fluid of some kind, and get her going. I do not want to fool with the current 6V positive ground and points.

I would like advice on the conversion and where to get parts. I was thinking of getting the part from yesterday's tractor.

I'm guessing I will replace the 20 year old wires and plugs, the ignition/distributor thing and coil, the battery, and examine the battery and starter cables and clamps more carefully.

Thanks for the help!

my personal opinion is that if you can make it run properly on 12v then there is no reason you cant make it run properly for a lot less investment on 6v

 

[bradleydavidgood]

Hi bradleydavidgood,
Yes, get your parts here!
So its pull the hood, install new 12 volt conversion, and Pertronix, rebuild the carb, or put on a spare, clean or replace the gas tank, then try to fire it up?

Ive had joy leaving the genny, and regulator, but taking the wires off and taping em up. Then starting with 12 volt battery neg ground, with old wires, on points and 6v coil. Would test the hydros, and take for a short drive testing the trans, clutch, steering, etc. (Rigged a temp fuel tank)


The sidemount camshaft has a press on gear (7RA 6255) that drives the distributor. If it slips, the timing will be off.
View attachment 156788
Once at 0° pry the flywheel down 4 marks to the 4° timing mark.
Your rotor should be pointing directly to the contact in the dist cap for #1 plug wire.

Thank you! Very helpful, will do

 

[bradleydavidgood]

I read all the opinions about 6V. Thank you for those.

I respect your opinions on this, and in a way, for basic troubleshooting reasons, it is the simplest path in a way. Because less is changed up front. Which makes it an attractive path.

However, the current battery is no good, and neither are the points. So to go down that path, I'd already be spending $200. Then there could be several hours (5-10) of my time buying parts, doing these installs, troubleshooting, and communicating on this forum to get it running on 6V. That's $200 and many hours I could invest in going to a modern 12V system.

In my life experience, when I've heard about issues with old equipment that has points, and has trouble starting, it's been the points most of the time, and many stories of fooling with points, cleaning points, replacing points.

When I had issues last year with the Farmall 140 starting, I heard all of these same things about keeping the 6V and addressing the points. We converted to electronic ignition cheaply. Junior at the farm reports that it starts much quicker, and starts every time now, and runs better. I experienced it myself just the other day. He gave me a ride to my truck on the 140 and it started much quicker, was running noticeably better, a remarkable difference. I also watched a video previously of another guy who converted to 12V on the 140 and he said it started much quicker and reliably.

I know I want to convert to 12V, and I'm completely happy with the cost of doing so. To me, in good working order, this tractor has a very high value as far as equipment goes.
In 1951 this tractor sold for $1400. In today's dollars, that is $17,775.
Considering that, $500-1000 to improve and modernize it is nothing to me.

My reasons for converting to 12V:
I replace the entire ignition and charging system (modern 12V battery (AGM), alternator, coil, wires, plugs, distributor cap and rotor, battery). All fresh new modern parts narrows down the potential issues in any of those systems for initial troubleshooting and long term reliability.
No points maintenance
12V charging/jumping equipment
Jump starting with jumper cables from another vehicle
12V spins the starter faster
12V is more forgiving of old wiring and connection voltage drop
More available ignition voltage, while still using the correct coil/resistor setup
12V batteries are easier to find and usually cheaper/more common than 6V tractor batteries
Alternator charging is usually better than the old 6V generator system
12V bulbs, coils, solenoids, alternators, and accessories are easier to source
Lights are brighter
Modern 12V accessories

Thanks!

 

[TheOldHokie]

I read all the opinions about 6V. Thank you for those.

I respect your opinions on this, and in a way, for basic troubleshooting reasons, it is the simplest path in a way. Because less is changed up front. Which makes it an attractive path.

However, the current battery is no good, and neither are the points. So to go down that path, I'd already be spending $200. Then there could be several hours (5-10) of my time buying parts, doing these installs, troubleshooting, and communicating on this forum to get it running on 6V. That's $200 and many hours I could invest in going to a modern 12V system.

In my life experience, when I've heard about issues with old equipment that has points, and has trouble starting, it's been the points most of the time, and many stories of fooling with points, cleaning points, replacing points.

When I had issues last year with the Farmall 140 starting, I heard all of these same things about keeping the 6V and addressing the points. We converted to electronic ignition cheaply. Junior at the farm reports that it starts much quicker, and starts every time now, and runs better. I experienced it myself just the other day. He gave me a ride to my truck on the 140 and it started much quicker, was running noticeably better, a remarkable difference. I also watched a video previously of another guy who converted to 12V on the 140 and he said it started much quicker and reliably.

I know I want to convert to 12V, and I'm completely happy with the cost of doing so. To me, in good working order, this tractor has a very high value as far as equipment goes.
In 1951 this tractor sold for $1400. In today's dollars, that is $17,775.
Considering that, $500-1000 to improve and modernize it is nothing to me.

My reasons for converting to 12V:
I replace the entire ignition and charging system (modern 12V battery (AGM), alternator, coil, wires, plugs, distributor cap and rotor, battery). All fresh new modern parts narrows down the potential issues in any of those systems for initial troubleshooting and long term reliability.
No points maintenance
12V charging/jumping equipment
Jump starting with jumper cables from another vehicle
12V spins the starter faster
12V is more forgiving of old wiring and connection voltage drop
More available ignition voltage, while still using the correct coil/resistor setup
12V batteries are easier to find and usually cheaper/more common than 6V tractor batteries
Alternator charging is usually better than the old 6V generator system
12V bulbs, coils, solenoids, alternators, and accessories are easier to source
Lights are brighter
Modern 12V accessories

Thanks!

There is ZERO advantage to 6V or mechanical points. There are big advantages to 12V

MNSHO,

TOH

 

[bradleydavidgood]

There is ZERO advantage to 6V or mechanical points.

MNSHO,

TOH

Thank you!

 

[markdtn]

I'm going to split the difference. I like 12V for all the reasons mentioned, but have no problems with points. If I was in the OPs shoes, I would get a 12V battery and a set of points-especially with the side mount distributor. Replace the points and disconnect the wires to the generator and voltage regulator. Crank it and see if I had spark. If spark, then make sure it was plug wired correctly, then a bit of 2 stroke in the carb and see if it will fire up. If all that is good then clean the fuel tank and/or carb. Lastly put the alternator on and wire it up. In my mind too many changes all at once is not a good diagnostic method.

PS-pretty sure late 8N, NAA, etc. points are the same as 8BA V8 flathead and Y-block points. I had a set of NOS 90s points in my 8BA V8 tractor left over from a NAA tractor tuneup kit for a long time. As such they can sometimes be found NOS Motorcraft or Blue Streak on Evilbay.