Ford 8N 12V EI conversion

[bradleydavidgood]

Thanks! Good to know. I already removed the post caps on the Costco battery so It's mine now.

I'll be shopping for an alternative next time for sure.

All these companies and their shenanigans!

Can't count on any brand names anymore.

 

[DeltaRed]

Why are you wasting your money on fancy electronic ignition. IMHO,those electronic systems are 'snake oil'.Those 'old' point systems have worked reliably 'forever'. I ve seen more electronic systems fail than the points.Less maintenance? I've run the same points on my 8N for 10+ years since I converted to 12 volt. My 8N is a weekly user.Always starts and runs well.So why change?

 

[Hobo,NC]

Interstate, Autolite both sold their sole for the Money

 

[504]

For 6 volt tractors converted to 12 volt l use the cheapest lawn mower battery with posts( except a diesel) . They used to be 25.00 but higher now. You don’t need a 700 amp batter to start a 4 cylinder with 60 psi compression.

 

[bradleydavidgood]

Made some more progress today on the battery area and the hold down.

 

[Hobo,NC]

The main reason I use Delrin (plastic) are hard wood is when the hold down rattles lose and shorts again the battery post I will not be saying %$*(^)(^&*$. I could not tell if the j bolts came with a insulator round rubber washer throw it away its biodegradable it will fall apart in time.

You could also buy the hold down I listed. You could tie the metal piece to the battery tote handle to keep it form hitting the bat post. You are playing with fire...

 

[bradleydavidgood]

This evening I worked at removing the starter.

I'm looking for advice from anyone who has run into this before on a Ford 8N.

I removed the two starter bolts, and the starter will slide out about 2½ inches, but then it hits a solid stop and won't come out any farther. I moved the oil filter canister out of the way, so that isn't the problem.

Looking through the starter opening, it appears the Bendix/drive is extended, and it looks like the drive assembly is too large to pass back by the flywheel ring gear.

My original 6V battery was completely dead and would not turn the engine at all. It has already been returned as a core, so I can't test the starter with the original battery.

I've since reinstalled the starter and hand-snugged the mounting bolts so it's fully seated again.

My proposed plan is:

1. Tighten the starter mounting bolts normally.
2. Make sure the transmission is in neutral and chock the rear wheels.
3. Temporarily connect a 12V battery directly to the starter with jumper cables:
- 12V battery positive to a clean metal spot on the tractor frame
- 12V battery negative to the starter terminal post
4. Give the starter a brief bump in hopes of retracting or resetting the Bendix.
5. Disconnect the jumper cables and try removing the starter again.

Does this sound like a reasonable approach, or is there a better way to free a starter that appears to be trapped behind the ring gear?

If this is the right approach,
how many seconds should I energize the starter?

 

[bradleydavidgood]

The main reason I use Delrin (plastic) are hard wood is when the hold down rattles lose and shorts again the battery post I will not be saying %$*(^)(^&*$. I could not tell if the j bolts came with a insulator round rubber washer throw it away its biodegradable it will fall apart in time.

You could also buy the hold down I listed. You could tie the metal piece to the battery tote handle to keep it form hitting the bat post. You are playing with fire...

Good thoughts, thanks again Hobo.

I was thinking of putting 1/8" rubber under the metal piece, to give it some grabbing action to the top of the battery. And some blue thread locker on the bolts. Do you think it still will vibrate loose? If so then maybe a zip tie holding it away from the posts.

Or just use wood like you said. I have a lot of that around and it would look nice. Maybe some rough cedar.

 

[Hobo,NC]

The starter will come out keep at it worst case pull the starter apart. The drive will never retract off battery alone while installed on the tractor it takes RPM and pressure from a running engine to sling it back. Once out there are youtube videos that will show you how to retract the drive.

 

[bradleydavidgood]

A good video about the reasons for converting the starter from 6V to 12V:

 

[bradleydavidgood]

The starter will come out keep at it worst case pull the starter apart. The drive will never retract off battery alone while installed on the tractor it takes RPM and pressure from a running engine to sling it back. Once out there are youtube videos that will show you how to retract the drive.

Great video thank you.

I'm not understanding what you mean by:
"The starter will come out keep at it worst case pull the starter apart"

I am understanding that you are saying that, with the starter reinstalled, activating the starter will not spin it fast enough to retract it without the engine running.

So what do you propose that I do? Do I pull it back out 2 inches and then do the pickle fork thing like in the video you posted?

Thanks!

 

[bradleydavidgood]

I understand your sentence now. I just needed to put periods in it in my head because I was running it all together...

The starter will come out. Keep at it. Worst case pull the starter apart.

Yes I can separate the starter and that will allow me to angle it better because the wide part of the motor will be out of the way.

Thanks!

 

[Hobo,NC]

I understand your sentence now. I just needed to put periods in it in my head because I was running it all together...

The starter will come out. Keep at it. Worst case pull the starter apart.

Yes I can separate the starter and that will allow me to angle it better because the wide part of the motor will be out of the way.

Thanks!

Yelp that's what I meant. Did you remove the block drain I cant tell in the video. Folks make it a big deal to put those starters back together, there is nuttin to it.

 

[bradleydavidgood]

Yelp that's what I meant. Did you remove the block drain I cant tell in the video. Folks make it a big deal to put those starters back together, there is nuttin to it.

Cool.

No, didn't remove the block drain. You mean the coolant block drain? Why?

 

[bradleydavidgood]

You could also buy the hold down I listed.

I had forgotten about that one. I had searched before and found that for $25 plus shipping elsewhere, but on YT that's only $12.80.

I have it in my cart for when I inevitably need something else so that shipping will be reasonable.

So that one long term is the plan.

Thanks!

 

[bradleydavidgood]

Why are you wasting your money on fancy electronic ignition. IMHO,those electronic systems are 'snake oil'.Those 'old' point systems have worked reliably 'forever'. I ve seen more electronic systems fail than the points.Less maintenance? I've run the same points on my 8N for 10+ years since I converted to 12 volt. My 8N is a weekly user.Always starts and runs well.So why change?

Thank you for this question. I had answered it in another thread but not in this thread. It inspired me to do a video about the subject.

 

[olddavid]

The main reason I use Delrin (plastic) are hard wood is when the hold down rattles lose and shorts again the battery post I will not be saying %$*(^)(^&*$. I could not tell if the j bolts came with a insulator round rubber washer throw it away its biodegradable it will fall apart in time.

You could also buy the hold down I listed. You could tie the metal piece to the battery tote handle to keep it form hitting the bat post. You are playing with fire...

IF the bar is centered and the bolts are tight it isn't likely to slide over far enough to short but I would wrap electrical tape around it or slide some heat shrink tape over it just to be safe.

 

[bradleydavidgood]

I took the starter back out, and separated the starter parts, and I still could not get it past the ring gear.

 

[bradleydavidgood]

Considering that putting it back into the tractor and bumping it will not be enough force to reset the Bendix, I need another idea.

I watched a guy on a video that had his starter out and used a pickle fork behind the gear to push it while energizing the starter with a battery. I'm not sure I could do that with it partially out 2.5 inches like I had it, but maybe I could, if I had six hands or a combination of bungies and a partner helping. It is an idea if I don't hear any other ideas.

Also, I'm assuming that I can't remove the armature or disassemble the starter any more than what I have done already. If that is not true, please let me know.

Pickle Fork Video:

 

[olddavid]

The Ferguson TE-20 had a similar though reversed setup on their Lucas starter Bendix. If you rotated it out it would click and not return. I found that out the hard way. I had to disassemble the Bendix and figure out how to put it back together just right. On a difficulty scale of 1 to 10 I'd give it an 11. I doubt the pickle fork method would work on it.