IH 584 pto not stopping with clutch

[Massey_165]

Just Bush hogged with my IH 584, I’m pretty sure it should have live pto? When the pto is engaged it doesn’t stop or slow down when I engage the clutch. Any advice on what to look at for this?

 

[old]

Just Bush hogged with my IH 584, I’m pretty sure it should have live pto? When the pto is engaged it doesn’t stop or slow down when I engage the clutch. Any advice on what to look at for this?

Engine clutch doesn't do anything for the PTO is is independent of the transmission clutch

 

[Jim.ME]

This is not the problem with your PTO, but a terminology thing. The clutch is engaged when it is driving the gear train (your foot is off the pedal). The clutch is disengaged when you push the pedal to stop the engine from driving the gear train.

 

[Massey_165]

This is not the problem with your PTO, but a terminology thing. The clutch is engaged when it is driving the gear train (your foot is off the pedal). The clutch is disengaged when you push the pedal to stop the engine from driving the gear train.

Yeah my bad I did write it wrong, when I push the clutch pedal shouldn’t it also stop the pto? I know my Massey does.

 

[MARK ROBKE]

Yeah my bad I did write it wrong, when I push the clutch pedal shouldn’t it also stop the pto? I know my Massey does.

The 584 has live PTO. It runs independent of the clutch. Has its own hydraulic clutch pack controlled by the valve controlled by the lever. You don't need to step on the clutch to engage or dis engage the PTO. Your Massey has non-live PTO, the clutch disengages and engages it. Mark.

 

[Dieseltech]

Your MF PROBABLY has the two stage clutch, first stage stops the transmission, the SECOND stage stops the hydraulic pump AND PTO.

 

[Jim.ME]

Yeah my bad I did write it wrong, when I push the clutch pedal shouldn’t it also stop the pto? I know my Massey does.

Your Massey likely has the Live PTO which uses a two stage (dual) clutch. Push it halfway down and travel stops. Push it all the way down and the PTO stops as well. The 584 has the independent PTO, it is controlled by a hydraulic clutch that is operated by a valve totally separate from the foot/engine clutch. The PTO power shaft is driven from the pressure plate, so it turns all the time the engine is running.

Not all tractors are the same. Do you have an Operator's manual for the 584? It should explain operating the PTO.

 

[urbancase]

I have a 584 and it’s a IPTO, I for independent and clutch will do nothing to the pto only the leaver starts and stops it.

 

[Ultradog MN]

I see ads for tractors that will say it has "live power" but that doesnt tell you whether it has live or independent pto.

 

[Massey_165]

Your Massey likely has the Live PTO which uses a two stage (dual) clutch. Push it halfway down and travel stops. Push it all the way down and the PTO stops as well. The 584 has the independent PTO, it is controlled by a hydraulic clutch that is operated by a valve totally separate from the foot/engine clutch. The PTO power shaft is driven from the pressure plate, so it turns all the time the engine is running.

Not all tractors are the same. Do you have an Operator's manual for the 584? It should explain operating the PTO.

Oh ok, yeah I just read the operators manual. I guess I’ll have to get use to that, I like how the Massey is set up but maybe I’ll like this way once I use it more.

 

[Jim.ME]

Oh ok, yeah I just read the operators manual. I guess I’ll have to get use to that, I like how the Massey is set up but maybe I’ll like this way once I use it more.

I would rather have the independent PTO than the Live PTO.

 

[Massey_165]

I would rather have the independent PTO than the Live PTO.

How come you like it better?

 

[Dieseltech]

You don't have to stop the forward travel to shift in the PTO with the fully independent PTO clutch, like you do with the two stage clutch tractors. Most two stage MF models do have the ground drive though if needed the IPTO models don't have.

 

[Jim.ME]

As Dieseltech posted, the shift on the go without using the engine clutch and stopping/affecting travel. Running some stationary Pto driven equipment you can start and stop it without having to climb on and push the clutch, just reach the lever and move it.

 

[Bob NY]

The 584 has live PTO. It runs independent of the clutch. Has its own hydraulic clutch pack controlled by the valve controlled by the lever. You don't need to step on the clutch to engage or dis engage the PTO. Your Massey has non-live PTO, the clutch disengages and engages it. Mark.

Here we go with more terminology issues. The Massey Ferguson DOES have Live PTO by way of the 2 stage clutch. The International has INDEPENDENT PTO.

 

[Jim.ME]

The common names for PTO systems used by most manufacturers are:

1. Transmission PTO has a single stage clutch and that clutch stops the travel and PTO at the same time when that single stage clutch is disengaged. PTO speed is proportional to engine speed.

2. Live PTO has a two-stage (aka dual) clutch. Depressing the clutch pedal about half travel will disengage the disc that drives the transmission for travel. Fully depressing the clutch pedal releases the disc that drives the PTO in that second half of pedal travel. Engine drive to the transmission is stopped when the clutch is pushed to shift the PTO. Massey Ferguson offered a ground drive position with the Live PTO. In Ground drive the PTO speed was proportional to rear wheel travel. It would also turn the PTO backwards if reverse was used while ground drive was engaged.

3. Independent PTO is usually operated by a hydraulic clutch pack, controlled by a dedicated valve. It is independent of the clutch that provides travel. It can be shifted in and out without touching the clutch pedal.

There were some other ways to have a live PTO such as the Allis Chalmers Power Director set up and hand clutches used by some manufacturers.

 

[Powered By IH]

I also prefer IPTO. Have spent many hours on both, and on IPTO you can just engage it, forget about it, and use the clutch normally. The Live PTO you have to be careful that you don't push the clutch in too far. Can get tricky when backing running equipment sometimes.