ford 5000 clutch issue and PTO question

[Gerben]

my 1972 ford 5000 started to have random clutch problems as of lately
when going back and forth on the yard to work up the gravel it often doesn't want to stop the tractor when i press the clutch, after pressing the brakes pretty good I can get it to stop and shove it out of gear.
it's strange that 90% of the time the clutch works just fine
had a mechanic try it out, and he said he couldn't notice anything wrong with it.
is this a common issue with these Fords?

also, the PTO doesn't want to stop spinning, if I have the mower hooked up to it and start the tractor, then the PTO won't spin, but without an implement it'll spin
can't stop it with a piece of wood forced against it
thinking to replace the PTO brake, but here's my question: can I upgrade to a brake band?
mine has the older model PTO brake, so I would like to know if the brake band will fit, or does that take quite a bit of modification?

 

[Destroked 450]

Most likely you have a transmission seal leaking allowing oil to get on the clutch disc, oil makes the clutch material soft and grabby
It’ll require a split to replace the clutch disc and transmission seals, splitting the tractor is the hard part
Replacing the pawl brake requires removing the lift top for best access, if you can not stop the pto shaft with a 2x4 and a little effort the pto clutch disc are likely warped and will need replaced
Swapping to band brake requires replacing the hub support, pto control valve and shift linkage plus possibly drilling a precise hole in the axle housing to hold the control valve in place
Pawl brake axle housings are different having one hole to pin the control vale in place where band brake housing have two pins and thus a second hole in the housing

 

[SkipperII]

If you decide to lift the hydraulic top cover, remember there is a bolt hidden under the right side lift arm shaft. It's not a hard job, I think Destroked is correct on the oil soaked clutch.

 

[sotxbill]

Very common for the clutch plate to "stick" especially when you first start it for the day, after setting a while. Sometimes due to moisture and rain, sometimes due to oil... Some even block/tie down the clutch pedal when not in use, to prevent this from happening. Most people just live with it... If it continues to lock up during the SAME day while your driving it, then you probably should split the tractor. I usually pull the tractor down the road with another tractor, in hi range and high gear.. and this make the motor turn over, but i have the fuel kill lever pulled. As I do this, I keep foot on the clutch, and then stomp the brake pedals over and over till the clutch breaks loose. One time it took 2 mile of stomping to break it. IF you drive the tractors often, this usually will not happen. If you set it up for a year or so, its more likely to happen. As to pto "spinning" or freewheeling, as you describe, is also normal as the the little pto brake needs to be adjusted. Realize you have a pto clutch that has fluid in it and when the fluid is cold, it "couples" across the clutch plates much like an automatic. Thus the fluid drag will cause the pto to spin with out a load. As the tractor gets very hot and the fluid gets thinner, the coupling effect gets to be less and thus the pto will spin slower or even stop spinning after hours and hours of use on a hot day. UNLESS your into the top cover for some reason, its not worth the effort to tear it apart just to adjust the brake band or brake paw.

 

[Gerben]

thanks for the replies so far! sorry for my late response
@sotxbill isn't the brake paw supposed to be adjustable from the outside?

in regards to the PTO:
it's spinning fast and is tough to stop, unless i have the mower hooked up to it, that seems to stop it, however once the mower is good and hot after some use, then the PTO shaft tends to spin the blades on the mower anyways, so it seems to me more than just "freewheeling"

 

[Destroked 450]

thanks for the replies so far! sorry for my late response
@sotxbill isn't the brake paw supposed to be adjustable from the outside?

in regards to the PTO:
it's spinning fast and is tough to stop, unless i have the mower hooked up to it, that seems to stop it, however once the mower is good and hot after some use, then the PTO shaft tends to spin the blades on the mower anyways, so it seems to me more than just "freewheeling"

The pawl brake is not adjustable at all
The band brake is adjustable but not from the outside, I’m not sure it can be adjusted in place on the tractor, it would be difficult at best. The last one I repaired I pre assembled the pto clutch assembly and adjusted the band brake on the bench
For the pto clutch to be dragging as much as you indicate I suspect the clutch disc are warped adding increased drag on the brake
We replaced the pawl brake on my brothers 66 5000 but didn’t inspect the clutch disc, within a few months the brake was worn out again