1959 Case 411B

[pry2877]

I purchased my tractor a couple years ago and constantly thoughts it was a 400B, finally read the tag and realize it is a 411B. Im trying to fix issues as they arise with it. Some days I get to work her hard and most other days she just sits.

I have changed all fluids and filters in her according the the manual. But two things that have been a constant issue are the hydraulics constantly raising up on their own. It is worse when the tractor is throttled up. I did recently put new roll pins in the levers, where they attached to the valve body and adjusted the linkage to allow full movement of the levers. I feel that helped a little. To lower it I have to push down on the arms as I push down on the 3 point lever and the remote hydraulic lever, even though nothing is hooked up to the remote hydraulics. Once it feels resistance it typically stops raising on its own but that means my 3 point finish mower doesnt float near as nice because the arms are already about to pick it off the ground.

Anything else I need to start pulling apart and adjusting so it doesnt raise on its own?

I also have a leak out of the pistons that go into the valve body. Im assuming I have to remove the fuel tank to get all that pulled out and new seals in it? I apparently didnt take pictures of the leak before leaving home this weekend but I will add it later. Here is a picture of it just finishing mowing 2 acres of tall weeds and grass with a frontier RC2084. She worked hard but did a great job!

Thank you everyone for any advice on this issue or even other things to be looking at on the old girl!

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

its is a 400B the 411 on the tag just explains how it was spec'ed and built,, 4- the Series 1+ the engine fuel type the next 1+ the axle setup type,, so this means you have a 400 Series tractor with gasoline engine and adjustable front and rear axles or a Row-Crop version ,, hope that explains the first question,,

 

[Joe (Wa)]

Does your engine tend to load up when the hitch is lowered? Have you or the former owner had the interlock block off the control valve or maybe replaced with different one? Is the lower control valve interlock block mounted like this pic? If you're not sure post a close up pic. Did you replace the pin that connects the bell crank to the end of the control valve spool? Did you clean the hydraulic oil return filter under the gas tank? Do you have a Case 300B-400B service manual?

 

[pry2877]

Does your engine tend to load up when the hitch is lowered? Have you or the former owner had the interlock block off the control valve or maybe replaced with different one? Is the lower control valve interlock block mounted like this pic? If you're not sure post a close up pic. Did you replace the pin that connects the bell crank to the end of the control valve spool? Did you clean the hydraulic oil return filter under the gas tank? Do you have a Case 300B-400B service manual?

I dont feel the engine loads up at all when it is lowered or raised. Former owner died many years before I purchased this tractor. His wife held onto it but never ran it. So im not sure if he ever pulled it off but I know I havent. I replaced the roll pins in the attached picture, the picture only shows the spool for the remote hydraulics but I did both remote and 3 point ones, which I would believe be the lever to bell crank and bell crank to valve spool. I have cleaned, replaced, and cleaned the hydraulic filter. And yes I do have the manual. Here are a few different pictures of the current configuration. Thank you for your questions!

 

[Joe (Wa)]

I don't have much time today and probably not until the weekend. Compare the spacing between the bolt heads and fittings on your lower control valve with my pic. The narrowest spacing has to be toward the front of tractor. I will go into interlock operation later if necessary.

Re the pins and bellcrank. Check that the open end of the control valves spool slot is facing down so the pin can't interfere with spool neutral position.

Both control valves have identical and mating ports. The upper control valve is simply mounted and bolted on the lower control valve, all ports match. Port "C" in the interlock mounted on the side of the control valves determines whether the control valve is to be used on a DA or a SA system. Upper control valve with two lines on the interlock indicates it is used for DA and lower control valve with one line for SA.

You wrote this above: "To lower it I have to push down on the arms as I push down on the 3 point lever and the remote hydraulic lever, even though nothing is hooked up to the remote hydraulics".

Your remotes are dead headed, not operating anything? When you move the lever either way the control valve spool opens the supply and return ports and closes the port to the filter and sump. The pump pressure to the lower control valve will be the same as to the upper control valve since the upper control valve has closed the return port to the filter and sump. If the spool in the lower control valve leaks than that pump pressure can enter the hitch system tending to raise the draft arms. A minor spool leak does not necessarily require replacement. I was just wondering how putting the remote lever in down position along with the hitch lever helps lower the draft arms, it should have the opposite effect.

Right now I would recommend you do a back pressure check as outlined Section V page H-30 in the service manual. See that leads anywhere.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

wrong button.

 

[pry2877]

I don't have much time today and probably not until the weekend. Compare the spacing between the bolt heads and fittings on your lower control valve with my pic. The narrowest spacing has to be toward the front of tractor. I will go into interlock operation later if necessary.

Re the pins and bellcrank. Check that the open end of the control valves spool slot is facing down so the pin can't interfere with spool neutral position.

Both control valves have identical and mating ports. The upper control valve is simply mounted and bolted on the lower control valve, all ports match. Port "C" in the interlock mounted on the side of the control valves determines whether the control valve is to be used on a DA or a SA system. Upper control valve with two lines on the interlock indicates it is used for DA and lower control valve with one line for SA.

You wrote this above: "To lower it I have to push down on the arms as I push down on the 3 point lever and the remote hydraulic lever, even though nothing is hooked up to the remote hydraulics".

Your remotes are dead headed, not operating anything? When you move the lever either way the control valve spool opens the supply and return ports and closes the port to the filter and sump. The pump pressure to the lower control valve will be the same as to the upper control valve since the upper control valve has closed the return port to the filter and sump. If the spool in the lower control valve leaks than that pump pressure can enter the hitch system tending to raise the draft arms. A minor spool leak does not necessarily require replacement. I was just wondering how putting the remote lever in down position along with the hitch lever helps lower the draft arms, it should have the opposite effect.

Right now I would recommend you do a back pressure check as outlined Section V page H-30 in the service manual. See that leads anywhere.

I unfortunately haven't had time to dig into it more but did try to do a video but of course it is to big to attach. I did find that without weight it goes up on its own, if I stand on it and press the lever to lower it then it will go down slowly. If it is throttled up and I press the lever to go down with zero weight on the 3 point it will actually slowly continue to raise up.

If i push the lever and the remote hydraulics (both with nothing actually hooked up, so remote is just dead heading) then it will go down on its own slowly without weight, much faster with weight. If it is about a quarter of the way up when i try to lower it wont go any lower. If I raise it a little bit then lower it again it will actually finish going down all the way. Hopefully in a couple weeks a couple things slow down and i can rip into the hydraulic system again!

 

[Joe (Wa)]

When you get time, every question I ask leads to something further that may help narrow the malfunction down. If you don't answer we are just wasting time
1. Check that the spool end slot open end where the bellcrank pin passes through is facing down. The pin is not bent?
2. Check your interlock block - bolt head to fitting - spacings are the same as my pic.
3. A back pressure reading at the rear pipe plug on the lower interlock block with the hand lever lowering the draft arms. Do not use the remotes during this action.
4. Are you using the quadrant lever to control draft arms height or just moving the lever by hand and releasing it when at the desired height? This needs to be determined: The the function of tripping the operator hand lever back to neutral and so the control valve spool, is only for the Eagle hitch in the raise position. The adjustment of the quadrant rod connected between the linkage and quadrant lever on the side of the rock shaft housing controls the height that the draft arms set by the hand lever trips the hand lever back to neutral position and the linkage pushes the detent ball out of the control valve spool slot allowing the spool to move to neutral.

The above are the main things to address to get moving again when you get some more time. No rush on this, I know how it is to be stacked up with commitments, especially if travel is involved.