Flywheel bolts 1850, Can I used Loctitie?

[alberta dave]

I am continuing the engine swap on my 1850D. I have swapped the bell housings and now I am putting the freshly refaced flywheel in place. I noticed that the on my bad engine the flywheel did not have any retainer/anti rotation clips on the mounting bolts. The bolts were tight but broke free using my impact without any drama. On the better replacement engine it had retainer clips with the fold over tabs but I see that the retainer clips are looking tired as a couple of the bend over tips have broken off.

I really don't want to wait for more parts as this repower is getting into its 4th week. What is everyone's opinion on using Blue Loctite on the flywheel mounting bolts? Have have used blue on external bolts before but not in a closed and potentially hot area like the flywheel.

 

[matthies]

Use red loctite on the flywheel bolts.

 

[alberta dave]

I was taught that you needed to use heat to break red thread locker?

 

[Ray,IN]

Dave, this should help with your questions: https://next.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/articles/choosing-the-right-threadlocker.html
If you plan on never having to remove the flywheel again, yes, red loctite requires more than 300°F to break the bond.

 

[Ray,IN]

Use red loctite on the flywheel bolts.

You must use a torch to heat the flywheel enough to break the red loctite bond; which opens the door to many ramifications.

 

[Jim.ME]

You must use a torch to heat the flywheel enough to break the red loctite bond; which opens the door to many ramifications.

I would heat the bolt head to break the bond given the bolts thread into the crank. not the flywheel. An induction heat can do it as will a torch with a brazing tip so you can control placement of the flame. Blue is best, a drop of red will work, don't go wild on the amount used.

 

[Powered By IH]

I was taught that you needed to use heat to break red thread locker?

You could try orange loctite.

 

[farmersamm]

Loctite is not the end-all-be-all.

Loctite can cause your tightening torque to be incorrect. It lubricates the threads, thereby making it easier to tighten them..........which gives you a faulty torque reading. Torque for bolts is either for lightly lubricated threads, or dry threads. Make sure you look up the specs for a given thread diameter to determine the actual tightening torque lubricated/not lubricated. It can make the difference between a properly stretched fastener, or one ready to break.

 

[Powered By IH]

Loctite is not the end-all-be-all.

Loctite can cause your tightening torque to be incorrect. It lubricates the threads, thereby making it easier to tighten them..........which gives you a faulty torque reading. Torque for bolts is either for lightly lubricated threads, or dry threads. Make sure you look up the specs for a given thread diameter to determine the actual tightening torque lubricated/not lubricated. It can make the difference between a properly stretched fastener, or one ready to break.

The standard usually for torqued bolts is using lubricated threads, unless otherwise specified.

Not trying to start an argument, just saying.

 

[farmersamm]

The standard usually for torqued bolts is using lubricated threads, unless otherwise specified.

Not trying to start an argument, just saying.

Hey, that's cool..............but most torque specs are dry thread........which has always confused me.........considering that you'd have to be crazy to do dry thread.

On a rebuild a few years back, the difference between dry, and lubricated thread, made a difference of almost 20lbs. The factory manual listed dry thread torques. It can be sort of confusing

 

[oliverkid]

Hey, that's cool..............but most torque specs are dry thread........which has always confused me.........considering that you'd have to be crazy to do dry thread.

On a rebuild a few years back, the difference between dry, and lubricated thread, made a difference of almost 20lbs. The factory manual listed dry thread torques. It can be sort of confusing

General rule for loctite is if the torque spec is given wet it stays pretty much the same, if the spec is given dry it needs to be reduced by 15-20%. Of course this also depends on which formulation of loctite you’re using since now they have the regular liquid, gel, glue stick, tape, etc. For almost every color. And that you are using the appropriate amount and not over applying it. So you can really go down a rabbit hole.

 

[alberta dave]

General rule for loctite is if the torque spec is given wet it stays pretty much the same, if the spec is given dry it needs to be reduced by 15-20%. Of course this also depends on which formulation of loctite you’re using since now they have the regular liquid, gel, glue stick, tape, etc. For almost every color. And that you are using the appropriate amount and not over applying it. So you can really go down a rabbit hole.

Dave, this should help with your questions: https://next.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/articles/choosing-the-right-threadlocker.html
If you plan on never having to remove the flywheel again, yes, red loctite requires more than 300°F to break the bond.

Ray, thanks for the link to the info on thread lockers. And thanks to the others for their comments. After considering my situation I have decided to avoid using any thread locker as there is a light coating of oil on the threads and I doubt the locker would work in the oily threads. Forced me to look through my parts shelves. I dug through my parts boxes and on the bottom shelf in a heavy and dusty box I found two more retainer clips with the foldable tabs intact. That was two hours of my life I will not get back. The box came with a parts tractor I bought over 20 years ago and never did look in it until now.

I used Red loctite years ago on down hole tools I sometimes needed on drilling rigs and remember the huge effort to set up rigging, steam hoses and tongs to get the torque and heat required to break apart some of those connections, often sounding like a gun shot when they let go.

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

Used red locktitie a lot in my T&D days. It will release at 400 degrees.

 

[used red MN]

Ray, thanks for the link to the info on thread lockers. And thanks to the others for their comments.

Not sure how many “drilled down” into Ray’s link, but one of the most important aspects of thread locker use is the preparation of the threads prior to application, which many times is overlooked. Dirt, oil, grease, even dust if present on the surfaces prior to application can definitely degrade effectiveness. So is the red loctite you applied really holding to the level it says it should?
Loctite surface prep

 

[Gambles]

Just my $.02 worth here. And when it comes to advice, you get what you pay for. That being said…
I’m not the huge fan of Loctite (or whatever brand you prefer), when it comes to an area like this. I feel Loctite has a place, just not so sure THIS is the place. If you can get it together the first time, with no chance of having to do rework, and if the repair will last your lifetime, then use it! But I’m a firm believer that with the correct factory torque (using a GOOD torque wrench), and with the proper prep on both the male and female threads, you won’t have a problem.
Now what I have used in areas like this is safety wire. You would have to drill a hole in each bolt head to use it, but it would work and not be affected by engine heat.
But, again, if using liquid thread locker, prep is mandatory.

 

[rrlund]

You guys have had a lot better luck with Loc Tite than I have. Anytime I ever used it, I might as well have urinated on it.

 

[Dieseltech]

Los Tite needs clean/dry threads to work right, some injection pumps need it in given areas or they won't stay together. Through holes should have it applied to the thread of hardware going INTO the hole. BLIND holes need the Loc Tite applied sparingly to the upper hole thread area or it won't do any good. One well placed drop works fine usually.

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

Not sure how many “drilled down” into Ray’s link, but one of the most important aspects of thread locker use is the preparation of the threads prior to application, which many times is overlooked. Dirt, oil, grease, even dust if present on the surfaces prior to application can definitely degrade effectiveness. So is the red loctite you applied really holding to the level it says it should?
Loctite surface prep

Quite true. The Locktite kits included an aerosol can of what they call primer. Odd-smelling solvent that flashed off very quickly but the red still worked without it.

 

[farmersamm]

Some great info on torque specs for various size fasteners.

https://www.fastenal.com/content/merch_rules/images/fcom/content-library/Torque-Tension%20Reference%20Guide.pdf

You can magnify the image to read the block of fine print on the lower right hand side. This give various scenarios.........lubed, dry, thread locker, etc. This relates to the codes in the columns.

I always compare this with anything spec'd in my manuals. Helps to confirm the info.

 

[Kell]

Just my $.02 worth here. And when it comes to advice, you get what you pay for. That being said…
I’m not the huge fan of Loctite (or whatever brand you prefer), when it comes to an area like this. I feel Loctite has a place, just not so sure THIS is the place. If you can get it together the first time, with no chance of having to do rework, and if the repair will last your lifetime, then use it! But I’m a firm believer that with the correct factory torque (using a GOOD torque wrench), and with the proper prep on both the male and female threads, you won’t have a problem.
Now what I have used in areas like this is safety wire. You would have to drill a hole in each bolt head to use it, but it would work and not be affected by engine heat.
But, again, if using liquid thread locker, prep is mandatory.

yep. forget the loctite, unless it's called for in the SM.
the safety wire tip is worth more than 2c; i use that a lot for hi-vibration apps & bolts/plugs w fluid behind them.