Surge Protector & Random Circuit Breaker Tripping

[Jim in LA]

This probably has nothing to do with the problem but here goes. I watched some generator/transfer switch install videos on YouTube the other day and one guy was demonstrating his setup on his new house and a viewer commented he had a potential safety problem with the breaker in his transfer panel. The homeowner had an Eaton service panel with a surge suppressor and breaker plus the meter. A viewer noted he had a Square D home line breaker installed in his Eaton panel and that was a serious issue. The viewer stressed that only Eaton breakers were to be used in an Eaton panel for safety and insurance liability. The homeowner went on to say that a Square D home line panel should only have Square D home line (HOM) breakers installed. It was an interesting read. Piney Grove Homestead was the channel.

 

[buickanddeere]

Brother has a new house with "GFI's installed at panel. Get a storm and the lights flicker it blows the ones that the freezers are on. And the well pump i believe. Why does he need more of a problem? I dont know.

There is no excuse for an AFCI breaker on a freezer , fridge, well pump ,roof de-icer heat trace, sump pump or sewage lift pump ,

 

[Watthour]

There is no excuse for an AFCI breaker on a freezer , fridge, well pump ,roof de-icer heat trace, sump pump or sewage lift pump ,

Correct. Dedicated equipment receptacles do NOT require GFCI protection. General/convenience receptacles in damp/wet locations, basements, and garage or outdoor, grade-accessible receptacles typically require ground leakage detection, and many general living spaces require arc detection. Local/regional codes can alter this to some extent, but typically not in any manner which decreases protection. Note that outdoor, NON grade accessible receptacles are not part of NEC 230.95.

Also, not only do MOVs potentially leak to ground, but many electronics with switching power supplies also utilize X2/Y2 safety capacitors from line to ground and neutral to ground as protection against floating chassis voltages. No single protective device (GFI, AFD, not even switchgear leak detection) can possibly account for all fault conditions.

If the communications equipment is the only thing connected to a circuit, no GF or AF breaker is required. I have a media panel a couple feet from my entrance panel, and it has a dedicated circuit directly wired to the internal power strip. This was as it was first being installed, and there is now very little space left in it:

Antenna, telephones, MODEM, router, amplified splitter, firewall, and print server are all powered in that panel, even though some of the devices are mounted outside of it. I know that the antenna amplifier specifically has X/Y caps, MOVs, and flash tubes internally as protection against static buildup, even though the antennas are all attic mounted and out of the wind. Those amplifier devices can all raise Hell with a "smart" breaker. Then again, a little lightning would dumb all of that down really quickly.

 

[buickanddeere]

Correct. Dedicated equipment receptacles do NOT require GFCI protection. General/convenience receptacles in damp/wet locations, basements, and garage or outdoor, grade-accessible receptacles typically require ground leakage detection, and many general living spaces require arc detection. Local/regional codes can alter this to some extent, but typically not in any manner which decreases protection. Note that outdoor, NON grade accessible receptacles are not part of NEC 230.95.

Also, not only do MOVs potentially leak to ground, but many electronics with switching power supplies also utilize X2/Y2 safety capacitors from line to ground and neutral to ground as protection against floating chassis voltages. No single protective device (GFI, AFD, not even switchgear leak detection) can possibly account for all fault conditions.

If the communications equipment is the only thing connected to a circuit, no GF or AF breaker is required. I have a media panel a couple feet from my entrance panel, and it has a dedicated circuit directly wired to the internal power strip. This was as it was first being installed, and there is now very little space left in it:

View attachment 163415

Antenna, telephones, MODEM, router, amplified splitter, firewall, and print server are all powered in that panel, even though some of the devices are mounted outside of it. I know that the antenna amplifier specifically has X/Y caps, MOVs, and flash tubes internally as protection against static buildup, even though the antennas are all attic mounted and out of the wind. Those amplifier devices can all raise Hell with a "smart" breaker. Then again, a little lightning would dumb all of that down really quickly.

I have observed on a few occasions where purists used 120:120 isolation transformers to limit “ noise”.

 

[1948CaseVAI]

Why do you assume a faulty breaker? Perhaps one of the things plugged into that circuit cycles on/off from time to time and has a fault.

 

[Brian G. NY]

Are you sure its a ground fault breaker or is it an arch fault?

I was helping a widow friend of mine and discovered one of those arc fault breakers in her panel.
I thought it was a GFCI at first. Her late husband had installed it in their computer room; not sure why.
Anyway, she was now using an exercise bike there, which, for some reason seemed to cause the breaker to "pop".
Unplugged it and no more problem.
BTY, these arc breakers have a pigtail that is connected to the ground bar in the panel.

 

[a49deere]

I was helping a widow friend of mine and discovered one of those arc fault breakers in her panel.
I thought it was a GFCI at first. Her late husband had installed it in their computer room; not sure why.
Anyway, she was now using an exercise bike there, which, for some reason seemed to cause the breaker to "pop".
Unplugged it and no more problem.
BTY, these arc breakers have a pigtail that is connected to the ground bar in the panel.

Any or some sort of arc will cause them to trip! My wife's vacumn cleaner sometimes trips ours!

 

[buickanddeere]

Any or some sort of arc will cause them to trip! My wife's vacumn cleaner sometimes trips ours!

any sort of motors with brushes will irritate an AFCI breaker

 

[OliLt]

I have an Eaton 15 Amp "smart circuit breaker" in my service panel. This breaker trips randomly from every few days to months at a time. It trips overnight, and always resets without issues. When you reset this breaker, it flashes a code. The code indicates "Ground Fault". The load on the protected circuit is minimal: lights, clocks, bedside chargers. There is a hardwired duplex receptacle on this circuit to protect sensitive electronics: router, wifi expander, cable box. Could a power surge trigger a ground fault and cause the surge protector to trip? Thanks for your time, Oli

I contacted Eaton tech support and was able to talk with a real person. I described the random trips of the circuit breaker and the code it flashed after resetting it. He concluded it was a defective breaker. He did not believe the down stream hard wired surge protector would cause the breaker trip. He / Eaton will send me a new breaker. Amazing customer service! Thanks to all who replied, I learned a lot about surge protectors and circuit breakers. Thanks, Oli

 

[Watthour]

I have observed on a few occasions where purists used 120:120 isolation transformers to limit “ noise”.

Being involved in vintage and higher-end audio, isolation transformers with electrostatic shielding are very common to reject line noise from audio equipment, as well as test bench instrumentation. I'm right on the edge of building a Faraday cage for my work area due to 5G signal contamination, line noise, and random bluetooth and WiFi interference spewing out from every poorly engineered device in use now. I can barely do a RF alignment any more without picking up spurious crap, even from LED lamps.

 

[sotxbill]

I contacted Eaton tech support and was able to talk with a real person. I described the random trips of the circuit breaker and the code it flashed after resetting it. He concluded it was a defective breaker. He did not believe the down stream hard wired surge protector would cause the breaker trip. He / Eaton will send me a new breaker. Amazing customer service! Thanks to all who replied, I learned a lot about surge protectors and circuit breakers. Thanks, Oli

A surge protector with MOV's by design, will bleed high voltage to ground... and the breaker by design will then trip. So, why are there surges??

 

[Watthour]

A surge protector with MOV's by design, will bleed high voltage to ground... and the breaker by design will then trip. So, why are there surges??

There are differences between noise, surge, transient, and voltage excursions. Each can be best addressed by different methods, and there is no "one size fits all" solution to all power quality problems.