Baler Carnage...What Happened?

[Briar Hill Brittanys]

Today was supposed to go a mite bit smoother, but oh well. I mowed about 5 acres of mixed grass on Tuesday with zero hiccups using my JD #9W sickle. Went back today and raked with a NH 256, again nada problemo. I'd just started in to an anticipated smooth run, "in the zone", earbuds in and on active noise cancelling mode whilst "County Fair" was playing, on or about bale #53, I look back and see that the ol' 24T had missed a tie and instead of bales, it was ejecting smaller windrows. Upon further inspection, it was obvious the driver's side needle was broken. I drove back home to assess the damage and here it is.

Houston, we have a problemo.....



In the field I'd missed seeing the broken control rod spring, and the passenger side needle was broken as well. What in the "Wide World of Sports" happened? The flywheel sheer bolt, didn't. The baler is in time, and I should be able to get the rest of the field baled tomorrow. I robbed a parts baler of the needles and spring, just need to finish fine tuning the needle mounting location on the recipient in the morning. The hay being baled wasn't overly thick, albeit a good bit thicker due to the recent rain. I don't think there was anything in the windrow that would have jammed up the bale plunger, it was in the middle of a nice, long and even row. What condition(s) cause the breakage when the spring broke, allowing the needles and plunger to "interact"? Thanks in advance.

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Today was supposed to go a mite bit smoother, but oh well. I mowed about 5 acres of mixed grass on Tuesday with zero hiccups using my JD #9W sickle. Went back today and raked with a NH 256, again nada problemo. I'd just started in to an anticipated smooth run, "in the zone", earbuds in and on active noise cancelling mode whilst "County Fair" was playing, on or about bale #53, I look back and see that the ol' 24T had missed a tie and instead of bales, it was ejecting smaller windrows. Upon further inspection, it was obvious the driver's side needle was broken. I drove back home to assess the damage and here it is.

Houston, we have a problemo.....



In the field I'd missed seeing the broken control rod spring, and the passenger side needle was broken as well. What in the "Wide World of Sports" happened? The flywheel sheer bolt, didn't. The baler is in time, and I should be able to get the rest of the field baled tomorrow. I robbed a parts baler of the needles and spring, just need to finish fine tuning the needle mounting location on the recipient in the morning. The hay being baled wasn't overly thick, albeit a good bit thicker due to the recent rain. I don't think there was anything in the windrow that would have jammed up the bale plunger, it was in the middle of a nice, long and even row. What condition(s) cause the breakage when the spring broke, allowing the needles and plunger to "interact"? Thanks in advance.

Sounds like your plunger stop failed you, for some reason. Is that spring & control rod part of that device?

Mike

 

[larry@stinescorner]

Today was supposed to go a mite bit smoother, but oh well. I mowed about 5 acres of mixed grass on Tuesday with zero hiccups using my JD #9W sickle. Went back today and raked with a NH 256, again nada problemo. I'd just started in to an anticipated smooth run, "in the zone", earbuds in and on active noise cancelling mode whilst "County Fair" was playing, on or about bale #53, I look back and see that the ol' 24T had missed a tie and instead of bales, it was ejecting smaller windrows. Upon further inspection, it was obvious the driver's side needle was broken. I drove back home to assess the damage and here it is.

Houston, we have a problemo.....



In the field I'd missed seeing the broken control rod spring, and the passenger side needle was broken as well. What in the "Wide World of Sports" happened? The flywheel sheer bolt, didn't. The baler is in time, and I should be able to get the rest of the field baled tomorrow. I robbed a parts baler of the needles and spring, just need to finish fine tuning the needle mounting location on the recipient in the morning. The hay being baled wasn't overly thick, albeit a good bit thicker due to the recent rain. I don't think there was anything in the windrow that would have jammed up the bale plunger, it was in the middle of a nice, long and even row. What condition(s) cause the breakage when the spring broke, allowing the needles and plunger to "interact"? Thanks in advance.

Its just the Missouri curse,,, it is cantagoius and spreads all across Missouri

 

[Briar Hill Brittanys]

Sounds like your plunger stop failed you, for some reason. Is that spring & control rod part of that device?

Mike

Yes, the spring attaches to the control rod. The control rod connects to the plunger stop; follows the needle frame during its travel; activating the stop as the needle frame travel progresses. The initial failure was the spring breaking. I'm just trying to figure out what happened from there that caused the needle breakage. I suppose with the hay in the chamber, needles up, plunger at the end of its travel, physics took over.

 

[560Dennis]

Weld them up ,let’s bale hay

 

[Tx Jim]

I suggest to check baler timing but if all chains are snug baler can't easily jump time. Next I suggest to check tightness of needle brake. When tying cycle is engaged needle frame & needles shouldn't free fall but frame with needles should have some resistance when moving frame & needles. I've seen some broken needles rewelded if the arch of the needle is still correct.

 

[DanielW]

The plunger stop should have stopped that, and no big deal to get another spring and get the plunger stop working again. But even still, the plunger doesn't shear the needles if everything's timed and worling correctly, even without the plunger stop. Two things typically cause the plunger to want to hit the needles:

i) Baler is out of time. But you said it was in time, which is surprising. Make uber sure you're checking the plunger and knotter cycle timing properly and when the knotter engagent mechanism is tripped and at the right spot.

ii) The arms/linkage to retract the needles back down is broken, so that they don't get pulled back down out of the chamber, or the brake is weak and let's them drift into the chamber.

It's not uncommon to weld them up and carry on. Just grind a good weld prep bevel so you can grind the weld down flush, and do everything you can to keep the original shape. No matter how hard you try, they will likely have to be clamped at a slightly different place and angle to place the twine where it needs to be (right in the groove of the twine disc), because the geometry will be slightly different. And make sure they're good, well-penetrating welds. But more importantly, you need to find out how it happened in the first place. Roll the baler over slowly by hand and trip the knotter several times to see what's up. Try holding the needles up in the chamber while someone rolls it over and make sure they're being positively pulled back down.

 

[Keith True]

Probably the first part of a baler I learned about as a kid were the needles.I grew up with the Farmall dealers son here in town,and during hay season thare were always a couple of yokes/frames with new needles bolted to it on the parts room floor.If you had a # 46 baler they were ready for you when you broke down.I guess that was their weak point.I worked for the JD dealer here in town,and really never touched a baler.We had a really good older guy that did the baler work.He had worked on balers all his life,and said those T series machines were heaven to him.

 

[560Dennis]

So what’s the baler start up procedure for the checking the working baler plunger stops on that baler ?

 

[Tx Jim]

The plunger stop should have stopped that, and no big deal to get another spring and get the plunger stop working again. But even still, the plunger doesn't shear the needles if everything's timed and worling correctly, even without the plunger stop. Two things typically cause the plunger to want to hit the needles:

I highly disagree with your statement [/quote] But even still, the plunger doesn't shear the needles if everything's timed and worling correctly, even without the plunger stop. Two things typically cause the plunger to want to hit the needles:[/quote]

If needle brake is not snug enough to hold needles in home position when tying cycle is engaged needle frame can move down from it's own weight then the plungerhead pushing hay can break or bend needles if PH stop is inoperable

 

[old]

Today was supposed to go a mite bit smoother, but oh well. I mowed about 5 acres of mixed grass on Tuesday with zero hiccups using my JD #9W sickle. Went back today and raked with a NH 256, again nada problemo. I'd just started in to an anticipated smooth run, "in the zone", earbuds in and on active noise cancelling mode whilst "County Fair" was playing, on or about bale #53, I look back and see that the ol' 24T had missed a tie and instead of bales, it was ejecting smaller windrows. Upon further inspection, it was obvious the driver's side needle was broken. I drove back home to assess the damage and here it is.

Houston, we have a problemo.....



In the field I'd missed seeing the broken control rod spring, and the passenger side needle was broken as well. What in the "Wide World of Sports" happened? The flywheel sheer bolt, didn't. The baler is in time, and I should be able to get the rest of the field baled tomorrow. I robbed a parts baler of the needles and spring, just need to finish fine tuning the needle mounting location on the recipient in the morning. The hay being baled wasn't overly thick, albeit a good bit thicker due to the recent rain. I don't think there was anything in the windrow that would have jammed up the bale plunger, it was in the middle of a nice, long and even row. What condition(s) cause the breakage when the spring broke, allowing the needles and plunger to "interact"? Thanks in advance.

Seen that happen many times over the years. Plunger stop didn't come up as it should have but many times it also means the drive chain for the needles has jumped a tooth or 3

 

[Tx Jim]

So what’s the baler start up procedure for the checking the working baler plunger stops on that baler ?

Check baler to be sure baler is in time & needle brake will hold needle frame in home position when tying cycle is engaged. Watch PH stop while cycling needles to be sure it functions as designed.

 

[Briar Hill Brittanys]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll triple check the timing, and the knotter drive brake. I didn't check the knotter drive for timing, just the main drive chain. The baler has been on a very reliable stretch of 2k plus bales without a miss-tie or any problem, other than plugging the feed, resulting in a sheared flywheel or pick-up bolt. Those instances weren't problems so much as designed protections working as they should. When I first bought this 24T, intermittent problems plagued me. After some troubleshooting it was obvious chains had stretched. After replacing chains and re-timing, the baler started performing great.

If you were to weld the needles, what is the best method? Arc, MIG, or braze?

 

[Tx Jim]

IIRC brazing or nickel rod have been utilized to put needles back together

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll triple check the timing, and the knotter drive brake. I didn't check the knotter drive for timing, just the main drive chain. The baler has been on a very reliable stretch of 2k plus bales without a miss-tie or any problem, other than plugging the feed, resulting in a sheared flywheel or pick-up bolt. Those instances weren't problems so much as designed protections working as they should. When I first bought this 24T, intermittent problems plagued me. After some troubleshooting it was obvious chains had stretched. After replacing chains and re-timing, the baler started performing great.

If you were to weld the needles, what is the best method? Arc, MIG, or braze?

It will be interesting to see the replies, but the repair I've seen the most, is brazed followed by arc.

Mike

 

[old]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll triple check the timing, and the knotter drive brake. I didn't check the knotter drive for timing, just the main drive chain. The baler has been on a very reliable stretch of 2k plus bales without a miss-tie or any problem, other than plugging the feed, resulting in a sheared flywheel or pick-up bolt. Those instances weren't problems so much as designed protections working as they should. When I first bought this 24T, intermittent problems plagued me. After some troubleshooting it was obvious chains had stretched. After replacing chains and re-timing, the baler started performing great.

If you were to weld the needles, what is the best method? Arc, MIG, or braze?

I almost bet I have a set of needles I'd let go of. I still have 2 or 3 parts balers on hand. If I where going to try to weld them I'd use Ni rod and arc welding

 

[matthies]

First get rid of the earbuds and listen to your machine run. Maybe could have been prevented.

 

[Brian G. NY]

Weld them up ,let’s bale hay

Yep, my dad did that back in the 50s.

 

[Gary Mitchell]

Its just the Missouri curse,,, it is cantagoius and spreads all across Missouri

True statement. Our Cass County MO New Holland bailer presented us with those once. gm

 

[Dick L]

Today was supposed to go a mite bit smoother, but oh well. I mowed about 5 acres of mixed grass on Tuesday with zero hiccups using my JD #9W sickle. Went back today and raked with a NH 256, again nada problemo. I'd just started in to an anticipated smooth run, "in the zone", earbuds in and on active noise cancelling mode whilst "County Fair" was playing, on or about bale #53, I look back and see that the ol' 24T had missed a tie and instead of bales, it was ejecting smaller windrows. Upon further inspection, it was obvious the driver's side needle was broken. I drove back home to assess the damage and here it is.

Houston, we have a problemo.....



In the field I'd missed seeing the broken control rod spring, and the passenger side needle was broken as well. What in the "Wide World of Sports" happened? The flywheel sheer bolt, didn't. The baler is in time, and I should be able to get the rest of the field baled tomorrow. I robbed a parts baler of the needles and spring, just need to finish fine tuning the needle mounting location on the recipient in the morning. The hay being baled wasn't overly thick, albeit a good bit thicker due to the recent rain. I don't think there was anything in the windrow that would have jammed up the bale plunger, it was in the middle of a nice, long and even row. What condition(s) cause the breakage when the spring broke, allowing the needles and plunger to "interact"? Thanks in advance.

Over the years I had that happen twice. First time I loaned the baler to a grand son. I hooked on to the baler as it was supposed to be ready to go. I knew better but when time is short! He had broken a chain and repaired the chain not knowing it had to be timed. The first try to tie they were gone. The second time the little spring broke they were sheared off.