1957 John Deere 420 U Direction Reverser

[Dmarin1967]

All was working while on blocks Direction Reverser continues to work however when shifted to middle (neutral) I have no regular fwd gears. Took it apart nothing looks out of ordinary. When removed the direction reverser completely and moved the drive manually with gears engaged all works just fine. It must be direction reverser but I just can t figure out how the neutral engages the regular drive shaft.am I missing something? The clutch, my guess has nothing to do with my problem at this juncture. I ve got all the manuals and have physically shifted the direction reverser and just don t see how it engages to drive shaft except when pushed in and it turns on reverse.I hate to just convert it to a regular drive shaft and take out direction reverser. Please anyone advise

 

[matthies]

Not familiar with a 420, but newer 400/401 you have rev/neu/fwd, you have to have it in fwd to go forward, you saying in neutral it doesn't move makes sense to me.

 

[Dmarin1967]

It does nothing on fwd all gears look good insideI will go threw it for the 10th time just doesn t engage. But all gears were working except the fwd direction reverser. That iswhen in neutral I would use clutch and shift on all gears and tractor ran fine!

 

[Jim.ME]

It sounds like you have the gear type reverser, but to clarify, which reverser do you have? The gear type with the lever on the right side or the later wet clutch one with the lever on the left side? The 430s used both and I think a few of the late 420s may have had the wet clutch type.

 

[Dmarin1967]

Gear typelever on right side. Just want to be able to go fwd and reverse. Right now it works only when lever is moved in goes in reverse on all gears 1-5. Even pto works. Once disengage on neutral or fwd everything stops working. No fwd gears, no reverse and no pto

 

[used red MN]

Hello DM welcome to YT. First let me say I am no Deere
expert but just trying to help out using common
mechanical knowledge. First give us a little
background. You say it worked fine on blocks, what
brought you to the need of having it on blocks? I am
going to guess you are doing some level of a
restoration on it. Before this the tractor was
operational and the reverser and forward gears were
functioning properly?

For others here is a capture of the JD operators
manual showing the ..Reverser.. control lever and given
description.

Just for future information, although some John Deere
folks do view the subjects in this ..general.. topic
section of the forum called Tractor Talk there is also a
topic section on here dedicated to John Deere
machines. I will add a link to it.

YT JD topic section

 

[Dmarin1967]

Was on blocks because rear tires are shot. It runs fine and like I ve mentioned above it was shifting on both direction reverser (except fwd) and working on all regular fwd & reverse w/o direction reverser in reverse. I now have it in three sections clutch is finei can turn direct drive by hand (with direction reverser completely off) and all gears work (not a clutch or transmission problem). Must be the direction reverser but I m having trouble understanding how the internal gears allow for the propeller shaft to turn so that I can go fwd.

 

[used red MN]

What does it look like in the reverser gear box, rusty by chance? In the linked part page scroll about half way down in the left column you will see "Direction Reverser" with -99 at the end that is the diagram. That along with the next page down -100 which is the part descriptions. Just FYI the descriptions of parts 1-4 are at the bottom of pg. 99. not having seen the insides of one of those here is what I see. Shaft 1 is driven by your clutch. Number 9 Coupling is what is slid by the shifter to change forward and reverse directions. This part is internally splined but must have a section of no internal splines of some width. The left end of shaft 1 that is cogged sets in front of part 6 the direct drive hub. The inside of 6 is splined to shaft part 14 that provides output drive for the transmission. The front portion of the internal splines of 9 are ALWAYS engaged to the cogs on shaft 1. When 9 is slid forward the rear portion its internal splines engage to the cogs of 6 and provide drive to shaft 14 to drive the transmission forward. This function is apparently where your issue is. Coupling part 9 MAY NOT BE SLIDING FORWARD FAR ENOUGH. To provide reverse 9 is slid back and the internal splines disengage the cogs of part 9. Part 6 is now setting in the middle area of part 9 with no internal splines, but the front section of the internal splines stay connected to shaft 1. When sliding back the internal splines of 9 engage to the cogs of reverse gear 10. Gear 10 drives the idler gears 39 & 42 which transfer a reverse rotation to the gear 14 to provide reverse drive. I hope this covers it.
So if it is rusty in there that could be keeping Coupling 9 from moving far enough forward to engage forward drive. One other thing that I see as possible is if you removed part 9 installing it the wrong direction MAY also cause this.
Also FYI the arrows in the boxes of the JD parts pages will let you navigate back and forth between pages 99 and 100.


https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc...JT04sNDc2MTojQ0FUQUxPRyw2Nzk2MTpFUVVJUE1FTlRd

 

[Dmarin1967]

Part six direct drive member looks a bit worn on the outer spline edgesit is not engaging when fork is pushed fwd. I thought that maybe if it remained in neutral I could at least use clutch fwd/rev gears and be content. Now I m looking at plan B can I just get a shaft and do away with the reverser all together

 

[Jim.ME]

Do you have the John Deere 420/430 Service Manual (SM2019)? There is a whole section on the reverser in it, about 20 pages. If you don't have a copy, you should consider getting one.

Was it working ok before you took it apart or did you lose forward in the reverser and that is why you took it apart?

used red MN has given you the rundown on how the gears mesh when shifted.

The long end of the sliding coupling (#9) the shift fork moves goes towards the engine.

Have you confirmed the fork has not slipped on the shifter rail or bent?

In the trouble shooting section one problem shown is: TRACTOR DOES NOT MOVE WHEN CONTROL LEVER IS IN THE FORWARD POSITION.

Cause: Weld assembly separated or broken on direct drive gear assembly

Remedy: Replace part.

Have you confirmed that direct drive gear assembly is intact?

 

[Dmarin1967]

The reverser works as designed but it not functioning on direct drive for regular fwd gears. I have all the manualslooks like internals are not functioning as it should for direct driveonly thing I ve concluded is that the fork has play and not engaging direct drive shaft and possibly a worn direct drive member gear part#6. My last ditch effort will see if somehow I can add a spacer to allow for engagement as the fork seems impossible to adjust

 

[Jim.ME]

Please report back when you find the problem.

The reverser was an option so it can be removed and replaced with a different propeller shaft. You will need to check the parts catalog to see what else might be needed using your serial number to compare parts in your unit with the reverser and the parts needed for one in the same serial number range without a reverser.

 

[George by Geneva, NY]

Summthin' aint right here. I checked shop manual for the 420 and there is no mention of neutral position. It seems it is forward or reverse. Are you looking for something that is not there? Post back as I would like to know what you find.

 

[Jim.ME]

The operator's manual says forward-neutral-reverse. See the page used red MN posted. There is a neutral to aid shifting.

This post was edited by Jim.ME on 02/25/2023 at 05:31 pm.

 

[Dmarin1967]

Let s assume fwd/reversethe issue is that tractor will not go fwdanyway you slice itexcept if I take off reverser it it s entirety and move input shaft clockwisethen all gears work

 

[George by Geneva, NY]

Please ignore my post below, after 2nd coffee got to do more looking. Parts diagram shows 3 notches on shift rail so that makes neutral as a choice. Can't find op man for crawler but did find 420T and it has an insert for the reverser. It shows the 3 positions. So, just have to find what is keeping yours from moving to the fwd.