2N PTO shaft stuck

[txbusmechanic]

Hello everyone, I'm new here. I picked up a 2N recently and am in the process of fixing it up. One of the issues I am addressing is the PTO shaft seal, it's leaking very badly. So I went to pull the PTO shaft out, but it is stuck like Chuck. At first, I got it to come out about an inch, then I pushed it back in and tried again. It is out maybe 3 inches and it has stopped entirely. I don't want to damage anything so I stopped for now. The tractor obviously sat for a long time outside and there was a significant amount of water in the oil. I drained all the oil out of it, and I have the covers off where I can see the hydraulic pump. It's not excessively rusty, but there is definitely some corrosion. I believe that the shaft is stuck somewhere in/around the pump. I have been soaking the suspected area with PB blaster. My next move is to shove the shaft back in and then back out repeatedly until the rust gives up. I won't be able to work on it again until late next week, so I thought I'd come pick some brains on here in the meantime.

Anyone ever run into this issue? It would be nice if I could rig up a slide hammer to the end of the shaft but I don't know how exactly you'd attach that. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[JMOR]

some past problems have been twisted shaft. solution is saw.

Generally the twist is ahead of hyd pump where PTO coupler slips over shaft. This twist keeps the shaft from sliding reward through the hyd pump splines. Due to close spacing of pump to PTO coupler, you can't access shaft ahead of pump to cut it, so you have to cut it aft of pump and remove the pump with the cut off piece of shaft still in it. Then once out of tractor, cut it again in front of pump, but aft of twist, so that you can then remove the cut off piece out the rear of pump. Often, if not always, the pump still will not come out with the length of shaft sticking out the front, so then the tractor must be split and then cut the shaft (front of pump), with torch or saws-all once drive shaft removed to allow saw access. Save removing top cover, by grinding splines away, since no saw access needed with spline grinding approach

This post was edited by JMOR on 07/28/2023 at 07:15 am.

 

[txbusmechanic]

Looks like the tractor is split in this picture... do you have to split it to cut it and get the rest of the shaft out?

Edit: just saw your updated post. Thanks

This post was edited by txbusmechanic on 07/28/2023 at 07:17 am.

 

[jimtrs]

(quoted from post at 10:01:45 07/28/23)
Anyone ever run into this issue?

As JMOR eluded to, not uncommon. I have had luck cutting 2 out. It is a mess, and some good grunt work. Not much room to work.
May (poss) wreck the pump in the process of getting the shaft out. I cracked one before the stub would come out.

I've also had luck pulling harder, with another tractor. Within reason.

 

[Caryc]

I see all these problems as the absolute reason to have a stump jumper on your mower. It could save one a lot of trouble.

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 11:07:41 07/28/23)

that may not just buff out.

 

[Abbby]

I agree with JMOR. Most likely twisted and you will need to split. some say you can get in there and cutoff but think about it. all the debris in there. Just split and get er done.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 18:40:50 07/28/23) I agree with JMOR. Most likely twisted and you will need to split. some say you can get in there and cutoff but think about it. all the debris in there. Just split and get er done.

some say you can get in there and cutoff ". The way I see it, without some disassembly, there is no possible way to saw in front of pump. If I'm wrong, someone needs to show me how. They are probably speaking of a cut at rear of pump.

This post was edited by JMOR on 07/28/2023 at 04:25 pm.

 

[Dave G9N]

(quoted from post at 07:01:45 07/28/23)

esterday, I had to grind the opening on the bottom of my 2N to install the hydraulic pump that I rebuilt with the oversized aftermarket valve bodies. (rant cuss scream) I was looking at some cutaway pictures on the forum https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1385460 and the next thread I looked at was this. As long as it was all up on the laptop...

It made a mess, but this time I remembered to mask off the bearings to keep the grit out. It only took me 70 years to learn a simple lesson. There is grinding debris all over. The PTO shaft would be hidden under the drive shaft, so you would not see it in this picture.

This shows the arrangement in there. The PTO shaft is red.

Come to think of it, I was looking at the pictures because I am about to install a new lift cylinder and was reading Tim Daley's instructions from the ntractor forum. The side covers are off, the pump and PTO shaft are back inside so I took another picture. This is what you see through the cover with the PTO lever on the left side of the tractor. Note the exposed bearing right above the PTO shaft.

 

[Dave G9N]

(quoted from post at 15:47:22 07/28/23) The way I see it, without some disassembly, there is no possible way to saw in front of pump. If I'm wrong, someone needs to show me how. They are probably speaking of a cut at rear of pump.
This post was edited by JMOR on 07/28/2023 at 04:25 pm.

When I think JMOR is wrong, someone needs to show me... :shock:

The support in front of the pump is inside the pump. In the cutaway picture in my previous post, you can see that there is no exposed shaft in front. If I were to try to use a saw, I wonder how long it would be before I gave up and got a torch?

 

[txbusmechanic]

I got lucky. Split the tractor, and it did not look twisted. Just extremely rusty. Was able to get a really good swing on the shaft with my hammer and it pushed right out with a few strong blows. Pump seems to be in ok condition but the shaft is severely rusted. I am going to thoroughly sand the rust off, replace my leaking oil seal and re-assemble. Huge relief to finally have this resolved and my tractor will be up and running again soon! Thanks everyone for your input.

This post was edited by txbusmechanic on 08/04/2023 at 08:27 pm.

 

[Abbby]

If not too late you should update to the modern size PTO shaft. Just buy the complete assembly.

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 08:32:29 08/05/23) If not too late you should update to the modern size PTO shaft. Just buy the complete assembly.

+1

 

[Eman85]

(quoted from post at 04:32:29 08/05/23) If not too late you should update to the modern size PTO shaft. Just buy the complete assembly.

Only downside is he'd have to replace his OR clutch assy.