301A industrial Over heating issues

[Drycreek]

New member here looking for some help. 301A JD industrial tractor with loader over heating issues. In trouble shooting this issue so far I ve replaced the thermostat, thermal temperature sensor gauge, removed radiator and had a shop check it out, replace radiator cap, Belt is good and tight, side screens are clean, Air filter is clean, replaced hydraulic filter, and checked timing. The water pump is not leaking however I cannot tell if the fluid in the radiator is circulating or just vibration when the engine is running. Top/Bottom hoses replaced, I assume it s a long shot for the impeller slipping on the shaft ? Any support would be appreciated.

 

[Jim.ME]

I'm guessing this is a gas engine with your reference to checking timing, but know that is not a for certain identifier. It wouldn't hurt to be clear on what engine.

Any bubbles in the radiator and blowing coolant out?

If the top hose very hot, indicating thermostat is open, and bottom hose cold it indicates lack of circulation. That said it is not unknown to have water pump impeller issues. Some pumps had plastic impellers which failed. It might not hurt to pull the pump and check it.

 

[Janicholson]

I have had an impeller slip, a nasty diagnosis as it was a new pump!
I would use a combustion gas detection kit (real cheap) to assess whether there is a combustion leak into coolant. Jim

 

[Steve@Advance]

Welcome Drycreek!

A sure way to tell if there is circulation, with the engine up to operating temp, the air coming through the radiator should be hot.

You should also find the upper tank and hose to be hot, the lower tank and hose cooler.

It's rare for a pump to loose the impeller, but it happens. If the radiator is cold, even with the engine up to temp and the RPM up, there is no circulation.

Are there any other symptoms along with the overheating?

Sounds like you have about covered all the bases, good chance there may be a head gasket or cracked head problem, especially if this started following an initial overheat incident.

Typical symptoms are steaming out the exhaust even on a warm day, mystery coolant loss, misfire, blowing coolant out the overflow even before the engine is to the point of boiling, coolant or watery froth in the oil, under the oil cap, on the dipstick. Diagnosis can be tricky, especially if the leak is very small.

There is a test for combustion gases in the cooling system. It samples the air in the top of the radiator, the fluid changes color if combustion gasses are present. Check with Autozone, they may have it in their loaner program.
Combustion Leak Detector

 

[Drycreek]

This 301A is a Diesel engine three cylinder 46 hp

 

[Tech 7]

For a period of time Deere was using a plastic impeller as a replacement part in their waterpump repair kits. I have seen them
fail and, apparently I was not alone as they reverted to cast impellers. You might try using an inspection camera in the inlet
side of the pump to see the impeller.

 

[Drycreek]

There are no signs of a bad head gasket, Pulled the T-stat last year and ran all summer, the gage never reached close to operating temperature. 180 degree T-Stat per the book.

 

[jacksun65]

That is a common JD engine. They have had problems with impellers on the water pump going bad. Sounds like that may be your
problem. Not a bad job to replace it. While your at it you would be ahead to do a reverse flush of the engine. Many years of crud
build up in the bottom of the water jacket.

 

[Jim.ME]

(quoted from post at 10:24:25 01/28/20) This 301A is a Diesel engine three cylinder 46 hp

Check the top and bottom hose temps. If the top is hot and the bottom cold; for the cost of a gasket and some time its worth checking the water pump, IMO. I've seen one with the failed plastic impeller and have heard of several others. New impellers in the JD kits I've gotten are metal. (When you wiggle a fan blade front to rear, if there is any play at all in the pump bearing it should be rebuilt or replaced anyway.)

As mentioned but others, using a combustion gas detection kit is not a bad idea as well.

 

[Drycreek]

When the radiator was cleaned The water pump was checked and was cast not plastic. The reverse engine flush sounds like my best option. Any pointers on how this is preformed I m all ears. Neither top or bottom hoses get very warm when temperature is reached. Thanks

 

[Jim.ME]

You say "Neither top or bottom hoses get very warm when temperature is reached." If the thermostat was opening and it is over heating I would expect at least the top hose to be HOT, about the same temp as the engine. Have you checked temp in several locations with a temp gun? Check the head near the gauge sender, the head/water outlet right below the thermostat, and inlet at the top of the radiator. How does that compare with your tractor's temp gauge reading? Could be a bad thermostat which is failing to open, that happens. Not doubting you, but I have also seen them put in upside down by mistake.

Run the combustion gas check as well.

 

[Drycreek]

Confirmed stat installed correct, Confirmed both stat and sensor both open and read temperature by way of heated water on the stove. I have used a thermal gun but not at the sensor port. At this point I ll need to get back to the ranch to get these readings confirmed. Possibly pull the pump and try a back flush. Thank you for the support and help to all

 

[buickanddeere]

Very common on these older and higher houses machines to find worn pulleys and a glazed belt .
First instinct is to jam that alternator down and have the belt fiddle string tight . Don t do it as that s what happened on a tractor I bought . Ruined both the alternator bearing and the water pump .
When installing the new pump, new water pump pulley, new alternator pulley and refurbished alternator. Much to my surprise the water pump pulley was out a width of the belt . The alternator mount needed a washer added to take the twist out of it s installation .
In hind sight the crank pulley also has to be worn and should have been replaced .

 

[Drycreek]

Thank you, pulleys are in line, Belt tension set per book, new belt, Cleaned glaze from pump, Alt, and crank pulleys.

 

[buickanddeere]

Can be deglazed , however when the pulley grooves are worn . The belt can not obtain enough friction to drive without slipping .
At this age and hours , there is no doubt the pulleys are worn beyond spec .

 

[Drycreek]

(quoted from post at 09:45:47 01/28/20)
Can be deglazed , however when the pulley grooves are worn . The belt can not obtain enough friction to drive without slipping .
At this age and hours , there is no doubt the pulleys are worn beyond spec .

Thanks for your input