Another 860, 12v Wiring Question

[jcmorgan31]

Finally got my "new project" 860 in the garage and did some digging around to see what I have.

Single wire alternator runs to nowhere, Believe it should run to voltmeter. Voltmeter has wire coming off it going nowhere also.

Single wire runs off of small post on starter relay to starter switch.

Single wire runs off of starter relay to key switch (same post as battery +).

Single wire runs from key switch to resister. Single wire runs from resister to + side of coil. Coil is a 12v that requires an external resistor.

Single wire from - side of coil to distributor.

Does this all sound correct?

There is also what looks like a voltage regulator under the gauges panel but it doesn't have any wires ran to or from it. Is it supposed to be hooked to something or is it a relic from the 6v system that was just left there?

Also, below is a wiring diagram I found online. What is the item I've circled?

Thanks again in advance.

This post was edited by jcmorgan31 on 12/31/2021 at 11:51 am.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 15:50:24 12/31/21) Finally got my "new project" 860 in the garage and did some digging around to see what I have.

Single wire alternator runs to nowhere, Believe it should run to voltmeter. Voltmeter has wire coming off it going nowhere also.

Single wire runs off of small post on starter relay to starter switch.

Single wire runs off of starter relay to key switch (same post as battery +).

Single wire runs from key switch to resister. Single wire runs from resister to + side of coil. Coil is a 12v that requires an external resistor.

Single wire from - side of coil to distributor.

Does this all sound correct?

There is also what looks like a voltage regulator under the gauges panel but it doesn't have any wires ran to or from it. Is it supposed to be hooked to something or is it a relic from the 6v system that was just left there?

Also, below is a wiring diagram I found online. What is the item I've circled?

Thanks again in advance.

This post was edited by jcmorgan31 on 12/31/2021 at 11:51 am.

two terminal junction block......a place to connect 3 wires together. Regulator is as you said....a left-over.

 

[jcmorgan31]

(quoted from post at 15:50:24 12/31/21)

two terminal junction block......a place to connect 3 wires together. Regulator is as you said....a left-over.[/quote]

Thanks!

I scavenged the internally resisted coil from my, not running, TO-20 and got rid of the resistor.

Need to head to Tractor Supply or Rural King and get a distributor cap and some wires.

May get to crank this bad boy over this weekend and see if it is my lucky day!

 

[Jim.ME]

You said you think the wire from alternator should go to the voltmeter. Do you have a voltmeter? Or do you have an ammeter as the drawing shows? Voltmeters and ammeters are different. A voltmeter does not get connected as the drawing shows the ammeter is wired in.

 

[jcmorgan31]

(quoted from post at 16:12:41 12/31/21)
You said you think the wire from alternator should go to the voltmeter. Do you have a voltmeter? Or do you have an ammeter as the drawing shows? Voltmeters and ammeters are different. A voltmeter does not get connected as the drawing shows the ammeter is wired in.

Good question! Looks like I have an Ammeter. Probably should replace it.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

The best investment one can make with your tractor are the ESSENTIAL MANUALS. This way you can avoid a lot of guessing. Leave the guessing for lottery tickets. True
root cause problem solving is the key for any problem. If you don't know what you are supposed to have, how can you troubleshoot problems? You need a copy of the OEM
Owner's/Operator's Manual; a copy of the 53-59 MPC; a copy of the CLYMER I&T FO-20 or FO-22 Manual; and a downloaded copy of JMOR's WIRING PICTOGRAMS. FORD used the
8V/POS GRN electrical setup til the diesel models in the late 1950's. The MANUALS are required not only for the electrical system but for all PM and rebuilds needed for
other systems. Your 'new' tractor appears to have been wired by a monkey let loose with a hand grenade. First thing is to pull battery and send to a shop to get tested
under load. Then go back to your shed and start verifying ALL the wiring is correct with your VOM set to continuity. Leave the AMMETER, you don't need a VOLTMETER. It's
an electrical thing - you want to show AMPS charging circuit. If you have a 12V coil you do NOT add an external 1-OHM resistor to the circuit so somebody mucked that up
to begin with. The area you have circled and arrowed is the JUNCTION BLOCK, and not a resistor. On a 12V Switch Over job, the GEN and the VR are removed from the
circuit altogether. You can use a 1-Wire ALT ora 3-Wire ALT, just be sure it is wired correctly. The Starter Motor has a Solenoid with 3 Wires. Nothing gets changed
when doing a 12V job. Timing is everything but you MUST have the electrical system wired correctly first before yo start mucking with distributor.


FORD 600/800 TRACTOR IGNITION TIMING & ELECTRICAL WIRING:

600/700/800/900 OEM WIRING 6V/POS GRN:

FORD 600/700/800/900 WIRING w/12V CONVERSION; 3-WIRE ALT:

FORD 600/700/800/900 WIRING w/12V CONVERSION; 1-WIRE ALT:

FORD 600/800 ESSENTIAL OWNER/OPERATOR/PARTS/SERVICE MANUALS:

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)

 

[jcmorgan31]

Thanks for the response. I have manuals on the way and I downloaded a wiring diagram. The main reason for my post was to ask about the voltage regulator which I got an answer to. I really sisnt need a lecture on the correct way to be an old tractor owner.

And the coil says right on the side that it requires an external resistor so the way it was wired was correct for that coil.

Again, thanks for the reaponse.

 

[Sean in PA]

Tim, that tractor did not come with a 12 volt alternator when new, so any service manual, either factory or aftermarket, will not help him with his electrical questions.

 

[jcmorgan31]

I tried turning the engine over this afternoon. The solenoid just clicked and nothing happened. Then it wouldn't click any more. I jumped it and the engine turned over so I assumed the solenoid was bad. My current solenoid is a 3-pole. A single wire runs from the solenoid to the starter switch by the shifter. I assume that the starter pedal grounds the solenoid which makes the connection to pass the 12v on through the solenoid to the starter. I disconnected that wire from the starter pedal and touched it to bare metal and nothing happened that way either.

I went to the local Tractor Supply to pick up another and had to pump the brakes.

They had a 3-pole that looked just like mine that listed that it was for a Ford 800 series. Problem is that it said it was for a 6V system. They had a 4-pole also that stated that it was for a 12V system. The wiring diagram earlier in the thread shows a 4-pole. Do I need to get the 4-pole instead and rewire it as the diagram shows?

 

[jcmorgan31]

So I saw on here that they sell a 12V, 3-pole solenoid which answered my own question above.

Here is my next question. If I push the start pedal and the solenoid clicks once and does nothing else, and then I jump the solenoid with a couple screwdrivers and the motor turns over, is it a given that the solenoid is bad?

 

[Jim L WA]

(quoted from post at 15:53:39 12/31/21)

(quoted from post at 15:50:24 12/31/21)

two terminal junction block......a place to connect 3 wires together. Regulator is as you said....a left-over.

Thanks!

I scavenged the internally resisted coil from my, not running, TO-20 and got rid of the resistor.

Need to head to Tractor Supply or Rural King and get a distributor cap and some wires.

May get to crank this bad boy over this weekend and see if it is my lucky day![/quote]

So after getting the wrong rotor from T.S.C. you're going to go there to get a distributor cap? Really?

 

[jcmorgan31]

(quoted from post at 10:57:33 01/05/22)

(quoted from post at 15:53:39 12/31/21)

(quoted from post at 15:50:24 12/31/21)

two terminal junction block......a place to connect 3 wires together. Regulator is as you said....a left-over.

Thanks!

I scavenged the internally resisted coil from my, not running, TO-20 and got rid of the resistor.

Need to head to Tractor Supply or Rural King and get a distributor cap and some wires.

May get to crank this bad boy over this weekend and see if it is my lucky day!

So after getting the wrong rotor from T.S.C. you're going to go there to get a distributor cap? Really?[/quote]

I actually got the correct cap from TSC before I got the wrong rotor from them, not the other way around. I've ordered the correct rotor from a more reputable source.

If someone could answer the solenoid question above, that would be helpful.

 

[JMOR]

Can't determine much about a solenoid by looking at it What is your part number? All the diagrams posted in this thread are not correct.

 

[jcmorgan31]

(quoted from post at 11:34:26 01/05/22) Can't determine much about a solenoid by looking at it What is your part number? All the diagrams posted in this thread are not correct.

I'll check it this evening for a part #.

Regardless of the part #, shouldn't it click when I ground the small wire coming off the small post to bare metal? That is what the safety start pedal is doing correct?

 

[old]

If wired as it should be the ignition switch has to be turned on for the engine to turn over.

 

[jcmorgan31]

(quoted from post at 12:19:18 01/05/22) If wired as it should be the ignition switch has to be turned on for the engine to turn over.

This diagram matches my current 12V conversion the best.

Battery positive hooks to one side of solenoid, starter to other side of solenoid. Small wire to safety starter pedal. I don't see how the switch has anything to do with the tractor turning over.

My question is about determining whether the solenoid is bad or not. If grounding the small wire doesn't make the tractor turn over, but jumping the solenoid does, is that confirmation that the solenoid is bad?

 

[Jim.ME]

You are correct. If wired as per the drawing in your post the safety starter switch only provides ground for the solenoid to complete the circuit, the ignition switch has no effect on it whatsoever.

That is an insulated base solenoid in that drawing. Unhook the wire from it and see if it has 12 volts on the small terminal when the battery is connected to the large terminal. Always make sure the tractor is in neutral when making these tests. If it has power on the small terminal, try using a grounded jumper wire applied to the terminal. If it turns over that way, either the safety start switch is bad, or the wiring is open somewhere between the solenoid and the start switch ground point. If by chance solenoid is a grounded base it would need power supplied to the small terminal. If it does not have power on it, try using a jumper wire and briefly applying power to the terminal. if it turns over you have a grounded base solenoid which is not correct for that application. If it doesn't turn over in either case the solenoid is most likely bad.

 

[jcmorgan31]

(quoted from post at 13:00:47 01/05/22)
You are correct. If wired as per the drawing in your post the safety starter switch only provides ground for the solenoid to complete the circuit, the ignition switch has no effect on it whatsoever.

That is an insulated base solenoid in that drawing. Unhook the wire from it and see if it has 12 volts on the small terminal when the battery is connected to the large terminal. Always make sure the tractor is in neutral when making these tests. If it has power on the small terminal, try using a grounded jumper wire applied to the terminal. If it turns over that way, either the safety start switch is bad, or the wiring is open somewhere between the solenoid and the start switch ground point. If by chance solenoid is a grounded base it would need power supplied to the small terminal. If it does not have power on it, try using a jumper wire and briefly applying power to the terminal. if it turns over you have a grounded base solenoid which is not correct for that application. If it doesn't turn over in either case the solenoid is most likely bad.

Thank you for the info. I'll get this a shot.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 16:06:30 01/05/22)

(quoted from post at 13:00:47 01/05/22)
You are correct. If wired as per the drawing in your post the safety starter switch only provides ground for the solenoid to complete the circuit, the ignition switch has no effect on it whatsoever.

That is an insulated base solenoid in that drawing. Unhook the wire from it and see if it has 12 volts on the small terminal when the battery is connected to the large terminal. Always make sure the tractor is in neutral when making these tests. If it has power on the small terminal, try using a grounded jumper wire applied to the terminal. If it turns over that way, either the safety start switch is bad, or the wiring is open somewhere between the solenoid and the start switch ground point. If by chance solenoid is a grounded base it would need power supplied to the small terminal. If it does not have power on it, try using a jumper wire and briefly applying power to the terminal. if it turns over you have a grounded base solenoid which is not correct for that application. If it doesn't turn over in either case the solenoid is most likely bad.

Thank you for the info. I'll get this a shot.

In addition, it is critical that battery power is connected to the correct one of the two large terminals. Won't function if connected to wrong large terminal.

 

[Jim.ME]

JMOR,
Thanks for adding that info, that I forgot to include, as it is key to it working if it is an insulated base.
Jim