Bale wrapper modification

[DRussell]

I've got a 3 point Kverneland round bale wrapper that I'd like to convert to a tow behind with a tongue and axle. I also have a couple PTO hydraulic pumps and a hydraulic tank sitting here that I bought at an auction pretty cheap several years ago that I'm thinking of adding to it so it doesn't run off the tractor hydraulics. The reason for doing this conversion is so it is easier to hookup and so it can be run with smaller and older tractors that may not have the hydraulic capacity to run it, example Case VAC and Oliver 550.

Has anyone here ever mounted one of those pto style hydraulic pumps to the unit and then connect it to the tractor via a short PTO shaft rather than mount it directly to the tractor PTO? My main thought here is ease of hookup and not having to manhandle the hydraulic pump and secure it on the tractor PTO every time it's hooked up. It's a lot easier to simply hook up a PTO shaft.

I was thinking about a short piece of 6 spline PTO shaft stock running through the pump and fastened on each side with a spacer and bolt or keeper of some type so it won't come out and then the PTO shaft mounted on the front going up to the tractor PTO.

Just picking your brains here.

 

[DanielW]

I have a an older Kverneland 7581 wrapper and I've been thinking about doing the same thing to for exactly the same reasons: I have loads of smaller, older tractors doing nothing during haying season, and it's a real pain to tie up one of the Cat II hitch tractors for wrapping (and a PIA to hook up). I don't see why it wouldn't work, as long as the shaft isn't too long, has decent telescoping ability for when you turn, and the pump is mounted solidly to handle the torque. The weight of the PTO shaft on the pump's bearings will likely be less than the weight of the pump on the PTO when mounted in its standard configuration, so you're not going to do any damage there.

The reason I haven't done it myself, however, is because I want to still use the self-loading arm on my wrapper. When looking for a wrapper, I waited to find a 7581 or 7582 specifically because I wanted the overhead loading arm: That way the bales can all be in a row in their final location, and I can pick them up from the row, wrap, and drop them right back in the same row - no need for a loader tractor and no need to handle wrapped bales until you're ready to feed. You can't do that with the conventional side-arm style of loader on most wrappers because they dump off the back.

If you have a 7581 or 7582 with the overhead loading arm like mine, it adds some complexity to the conversion: If I converted mine to pull-type, the geometry for tipping over to pick up a bale would mean it would have to be mounted really, really low to the ground to work right. And when picking up a bale, it relies on being able to work against the three-point when the load's off to one side (because the whole wrapper tips off to that side, so you have no weight counterbalancing the lift). I'd need to build my trailer/axle exceptionally heavy and/or have a boat-load of weights on the opposite side, or else the whole thing would just tip over when loading/unloading bales.

Something to consider if yours has the overhead loading arm. If you don't have a loading arm and just use another tractor to load, it's obviously not an issue. Or you could build a side-mount loading arm like conventional trailed wrappers: I helped the chap who trucks our cattle build one for his pull-type Case wrapper that didn't originally have one.

(For those that don't know what I mean with the overhead loading arm allowing you to pick up and drop off in a row, here's a video. Not mine, but same idea).

 

[moresmoke]

I’ve done exactly what you describe on a firewood processor. Length of six spline shaft through the pump with a shaft collar on each side. Cut a groove in the end of the shaft for the cardan shaft to lock onto.

I also have a landscape rake on my little Kubota that uses a pto pump. There isnt room on that tractor for it to fit. I made a bracket for the pump that bolts to the drawbar, and use a double ujoint yoke to a stub shaft in the pump. The slip action ends up in the pump, but I will never put enough hours on for it to be a problem.

 

[DRussell]

Thanks Daniel for your detailed reply. Some very useful info to consider. Mine does have the overhead loading arm, but I'm not interested in using it. This makes the conversion a lot easier as I can change the orientation of the wrapper to dump the bale directly behind the wrapper rather than beside it.

Some of my thoughts...I want the machine as low to the ground as possible so need an axle with a small wheel. The machine was designed to be sitting on the ground when it dumps the bale. I have an axle with 4.80x8 wheels that came off a trailer rated for 2000 lbs capacity. I figure I won't find a closer to the ground configuration than that. I don't plan to carry any bales with the wrapper, just bring them to the wrapper with a loader, wrap it and dump it. Based on that I figured the 2000 lbs capacity would be sufficient. I can't imagine the wrapper even weighs that much and sitting still carrying the bale wrapping should affect the bearings even if it would be a bit over the 2000 lb mark with the bale on it. I would cut the 3 point hitch off on the one side and remove the overhead lifting arms. Any steel I add for the tongue and axle mount shouldn't weigh any more than what I'd remove so the overall wrapper weight should remain pretty static. I'd also place the axle back as far as I can so that it doesn't interfere with dumping and places as much weight as possible on the tractor.

 

[DanielW]

Thanks Daniel for your detailed reply. Some very useful info to consider. Mine does have the overhead loading arm, but I'm not interested in using it. This makes the conversion a lot easier as I can change the orientation of the wrapper to dump the bale directly behind the wrapper rather than beside it.

Some of my thoughts...I want the machine as low to the ground as possible so need an axle with a small wheel. The machine was designed to be sitting on the ground when it dumps the bale. I have an axle with 4.80x8 wheels that came off a trailer rated for 2000 lbs capacity. I figure I won't find a closer to the ground configuration than that. I don't plan to carry any bales with the wrapper, just bring them to the wrapper with a loader, wrap it and dump it. Based on that I figured the 2000 lbs capacity would be sufficient. I can't imagine the wrapper even weighs that much and sitting still carrying the bale wrapping should affect the bearings even if it would be a bit over the 2000 lb mark with the bale on it. I would cut the 3 point hitch off on the one side and remove the overhead lifting arms. Any steel I add for the tongue and axle mount shouldn't weigh any more than what I'd remove so the overall wrapper weight should remain pretty static. I'd also place the axle back as far as I can so that it doesn't interfere with dumping and places as much weight as possible on the tractor.

Sounds reasonable to me. The small tires might sink in a bit and take a bit of a beating, but I'll bet it's no worse than they would be if they were travelling under a loaded utility trailer at 70 MPH and hit a pot-hole. And you can buy wider rims to fit on those standard 4-bolt hubs (or just cobble up a set of duals).

If you keep it facing backwards, you can even keep the overhead loading arm in case you ever don't have a loader tractor handy and want to use it. The company 'MetalFach' makes one of their smaller wrappers exactly like that. They make several different models. The few of theirs that I've seen in-person have all been very well built - they'd be my choice if I wanted to buy a new wrapper these days:

 

[farmersamm]

I would mount the pump driveshaft in a pillow block. A short shaft going to the pillow block/flange bearing with a splined stub for holding another driveshaft that would go to your PTO. I believe you want to isolate that pump as much as possible. A fixed, rigid, driveshaft will do it.

Something akin to how my driveline is set up on my Krone mower.

This would keep the stress off the pump mount, and pump bearings.

 

[farmersamm]

Sounds reasonable to me. The small tires might sink in a bit and take a bit of a beating, but I'll bet it's no worse than they would be if they were travelling under a loaded utility trailer at 70 MPH and hit a pot-hole. And you can buy wider rims to fit on those standard 4-bolt hubs (or just cobble up a set of duals).

If you keep it facing backwards, you can even keep the overhead loading arm in case you ever don't have a loader tractor handy and want to use it. The company 'MetalFach' makes one of their smaller wrappers exactly like that. They make several different models. The few of theirs that I've seen in-person have all been very well built - they'd be my choice if I wanted to buy a new wrapper these days:

So......vot dos von do mit all the plastik rrappuh???? Be knee deep in white Saran Wrap

Does look like a cool machine though

And this, ladies 'n gents, is why farmers go broke

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

The only concern I'd have is the short distance and the angle of the PTO shaft as the wrapper is raised and lowered. Yes, universal joints are designed to handle angles, but they have their limits. When the shaft is very short, any change in height is a severe change in angle.

Is this the kind of wrapper you set on the ground and set the bale in? I'd say mount the pump so the PTO shaft is fairly straight when it's running the wrapper. The caveat is you have to be careful how high you raise the wrapper when you move it from bale to bale, AND you probably want to make sure that the PTO is off before you fully raise the wrapper for transport.

 

[DRussell]

The only concern I'd have is the short distance and the angle of the PTO shaft as the wrapper is raised and lowered. Yes, universal joints are designed to handle angles, but they have their limits. When the shaft is very short, any change in height is a severe change in angle.

Is this the kind of wrapper you set on the ground and set the bale in? I'd say mount the pump so the PTO shaft is fairly straight when it's running the wrapper. The caveat is you have to be careful how high you raise the wrapper when you move it from bale to bale, AND you probably want to make sure that the PTO is off before you fully raise the wrapper for transport.

The distance and angle of the PTO wouldn't change unless you turn. The 3 point hitch wrapper would be converted to a tow type. The pump would be mounted securely on the tongue at a height the same as the PTO on a tractor. Imagine a sprayer pump mounted on a trailed sprayer with a 3 or 4 foot PTO shaft running from the pump to the tractor PTO. This would be similar, except it would be a hydraulic pump.

 

[DRussell]

I’ve done exactly what you describe on a firewood processor. Length of six spline shaft through the pump with a shaft collar on each side. Cut a groove in the end of the shaft for the cardan shaft to lock onto.

I also have a landscape rake on my little Kubota that uses a pto pump. There isnt room on that tractor for it to fit. I made a bracket for the pump that bolts to the drawbar, and use a double ujoint yoke to a stub shaft in the pump. The slip action ends up in the pump, but I will never put enough hours on for it to be a problem.

How long of a 6 spline shaft did you use and where did you get it? Do you recall?

 

[DanielW]

How long of a 6 spline shaft did you use and where did you get it? Do you recall?

They make these specifically for extenig PTOs through those pumps. One of them going through from the back would be perfect: already has a shoulder to stop it coming through from the back, then a shaft collar on front and you're good to go.

PTO Gresen Pump Extender / Adaptor, 11

Brand New PTO spline extender, 1-3/8" x 6 spline male to 1-3/8" x 6 spline Female Extension length (beyond PTO): 11-5/8"; Overall length: 15" This unit attaches to the PTO of the tractor, extends the PTO shaft by approx. 11-5/8" for use with a Gresen Pump.

www.tooltuffdirect.com

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

The distance and angle of the PTO wouldn't change unless you turn. The 3 point hitch wrapper would be converted to a tow type. The pump would be mounted securely on the tongue at a height the same as the PTO on a tractor. Imagine a sprayer pump mounted on a trailed sprayer with a 3 or 4 foot PTO shaft running from the pump to the tractor PTO. This would be similar, except it would be a hydraulic pump.

Oh, ok. I didn't see where you mentioned it would be mounted on a trailer.

If you can, mount the pump with the tip of the input shaft 14" back from the center of the hole in the tongue. This way you'll have equal-angle operation so long as your tractors are set up properly, which they should be. At four feet, it won't take much of a turn for it to start hammering.

 

[DRussell]

Oh, ok. I didn't see where you mentioned it would be mounted on a trailer.

If you can, mount the pump with the tip of the input shaft 14" back from the center of the hole in the tongue. This way you'll have equal-angle operation so long as your tractors are set up properly, which they should be. At four feet, it won't take much of a turn for it to start hammering.

Good tip. I was going to measure the distance from the PTO shaft to the hole in the drawbar and place it an average of the distance between the two tractors.

 

[DRussell]

They make these specifically for extenig PTOs through those pumps. One of them going through from the back would be perfect: already has a shoulder to stop it coming through from the back, then a shaft collar on front and you're good to go.

PTO Gresen Pump Extender / Adaptor, 11

Brand New PTO spline extender, 1-3/8" x 6 spline male to 1-3/8" x 6 spline Female Extension length (beyond PTO): 11-5/8"; Overall length: 15" This unit attaches to the PTO of the tractor, extends the PTO shaft by approx. 11-5/8" for use with a Gresen Pump.

www.tooltuffdirect.com

Thanks, I had found one of these from ASAP, but at about twice the price as the one in your link.

 

[moresmoke]

How long of a 6 spline shaft did you use and where did you get it? Do you recall?

12-14” or so. I think it came from a local machine shop. Been a number of years now.

The one suggested below might be the most economical option. You could also check the A&I catalog. Thats where I have found most PTO parts I have needed recently. Order through my local Deere dealer.