Brake seal replacement help.

[Brian Ski]

The seal is leaking behind, I guess you call it the brake drum/rotor. I read do not remove the cast plate the seal fits in... Bad things will happen.

There are 2 seals there from the factory. My plan was to remove the outer one and leave the inner. Well, I got most of the outer one out and it is leaving the outer section of it with like a washer. It I drill and try to pull, I will destroy the inner seal.

Do I say go for it and take the inner seal out? Then do I need to replace both seals? Or is one modern one ok? I have searched through threads and don't see an answer.

 

[used red MN]

The seal is leaking behind, I guess you call it the brake drum/rotor. I read do not remove the cast plate the seal fits in... Bad things will happen.

There are 2 seals there from the factory. My plan was to remove the outer one and leave the inner. Well, I got most of the outer one out and it is leaving the outer section of it with like a washer. It I drill and try to pull, I will destroy the inner seal.

Do I say go for it and take the inner seal out? Then do I need to replace both seals? Or is one modern one ok? I have searched through threads and don't see an answer.

ON WHAT?? Sorry but you have to remember you see the machine we don’t!
Edit: I see it must be a Farmall H due to your other thread, later these threads will be separated and no one will be able to know what machine was being discussed if it isn’t revealed.

 

[Brian Ski]

ON WHAT?? Sorry but you have to remember you see the machine we don’t!

Sorry about that... I was going to put it in the title, then thought in the paragraph instead and missed putting it in. Got in a hurry and forgot.

Yes you are correct... It is a Farmall H. Sorry again.

 

[Powered By IH]

The seal is leaking behind, I guess you call it the brake drum/rotor. I read do not remove the cast plate the seal fits in... Bad things will happen.

There are 2 seals there from the factory. My plan was to remove the outer one and leave the inner. Well, I got most of the outer one out and it is leaving the outer section of it with like a washer. It I drill and try to pull, I will destroy the inner seal.

Do I say go for it and take the inner seal out? Then do I need to replace both seals? Or is one modern one ok? I have searched through threads and don't see an answer.

Hello again!

Yes you are correct, do not remove the cast plate behind the brake drum. Bad things will definitely happen.

Yes there are 2 seals from factory. They should be a leather type double lip seal if original. Most likely both are leaking, so only pulling and replacing one doesn't do a ton of good, especially since it can be harder to get new seals in there the way you have it now. The seal design IH used is a bit confusing, but just pull everything out and you'll be fine.

I would recommend not drilling through that seal. The bull pinion bearing sits right behind that seal, so if you accidentally drill too far you could really mess up that bearing, and that would also not be a good day.

What I found works best on those seals is to use one of these. If you can fit it in between the seal and the shaft, or take a small screwdriver or a punch to make a hole in the seal (not a drill), these will pull the seals right out. Tool brand doesn't matter, a cheap one will work fine.

As stated earlier I would definitely replace both seals per side. You will be able to fit 2 seals back in, just make sure to grease the lip, then drive the first one in. On the second one, pack as much grease as you can into the inside part of the seal and grease the lip, then drive it in, then pack some more grease in between the two seals. This is because the second seal doesn't get as much lubrication if the first seal is working correctly.

Another note: when you took off the bolt and washer that holds the drum on, was there a cork gasket between them and the shaft?

And also, are you planning on doing any work with the brakes?

Please feel free to ask more questions if you have them!

 

[used red MN]

There are 2 seals there from the factory.

What gives you the indication there are two seals in there? The parts book shows one but it list 3, at least on line. That means there is “one” in the position but the dimensions or something may be different for the seal or there were upgrades or superceded numbers for it. The original seals are thicker than the replacements so sometimes folks place two new style seals in the position where there was one originally.
Messicks Farmall H differential parts diag
But wait, I see what you are talking about, that 58154D is a cork seal to seal the splines.
58154D example
I see PbyIH has chimed in, I think what I am showing will be a bit of a challenge to his information.
Also if a parts book is showing “2 required” that means one for each side.
I haven’t had an H apart for 30 plus years so I could be wrong as well.
As far as drill the seal to put a screw etc. in it to remove it I think you’ll be fine if you’re careful when it pops through. Those bearings are pretty tough, a little drill bit kiss won’t hurt it.

 

[560Dennis]

Suggest getting a shop manual for your tractor . This will help your project s . They have at the YT parts also .

 

[Powered By IH]

What gives you the indication there are two seals in there? The parts book shows one but it list 3, at least on line. That means there is “one” in the position but the dimensions or something may be different for the seal or there were upgrades or superceded numbers for it. The original seals are thicker than the replacements so sometimes folks place two new style seals in the position where there was one originally.
Messicks Farmall H differential parts diag
But wait, I see what you are talking about, that 58154D is a cork seal to seal the splines.
58154D example
I see PbyIH has chimed in, I think what I am showing will be a bit of a challenge to his information.
Also if a parts book is showing “2 required” that means one for each side.
I haven’t had an H apart for 30 plus years so I could be wrong as well.
As far as drill the seal to put a screw etc. in it to remove it I think you’ll be fine if you’re careful when it pops through. Those bearings are pretty tough, a little drill bit kiss won’t hurt it.

Hello Rick!

Glad to see you chime in, hopefully some of this will make sense.

"What gives you the indication there are two seals in there?"
-There is, in a way. It looks like one seal, but it's 2 lip seals enclosed in an outer ring. On the parts books, all a person can see is the outside ring, but there are two seals inside that ring. (The drawing for that seal isn't entirely accurate.) It's a matter of interpretation, technically it's one big seal, or 2 smaller seals inside a ring depending on how you look at it. Also, someone could've been in there before and put new seals in.

"The parts book shows one but it list 3, at least on line. That means there is “one” in the position but the dimensions or something may be different for the seal or there were upgrades or superceded numbers for it."
-Yes, the parts book lists 3, it looks like only one is offered though as the other 2 from Messick's are NLA.

"Also if a parts book is showing “2 required” that means one for each side."
-Yes, one big oil seal per side with two lips, as it came from factory. With individual seals now, Brian would need 4 seals to get the same number of sealing lips.

"As far as drill the seal to put a screw etc. in it to remove it I think you’ll be fine if you’re careful when it pops through. Those bearings are pretty tough, a little drill bit kiss won’t hurt it."
-True, as long as the drill bit doesn't go through to the balls. I just suggested the seal puller because it's easier and faster, and it tends to be more forgiving than drilling holes and putting screws in. I've tried both ways, and for me, drilling and screws did not work at all. Just my personal experience though, his might be different.

I hope this helped you, have a great rest of this beautiful day!

 

[Brian Ski]

Suggest getting a shop manual for your tractor . This will help your project s

I will hit these a little at a time. Manual ordered... Will be a while before it gets here... I noticed there are a bunch of different manuals.

 

[Brian Ski]

What gives you the indication there are two seals in there?

Through some internet reading said there are 2... (That does not necessarily make it so.) But I tried to take the first one out and save the second one... After you pull the first you can see the second one behind it. Like Used red said... the seals are steel with a band of leather in the middle of them.

But these Original are tough. (thick hard steel.) Hard to explain without a good picture... But I took out the center piece of the outer seal... And the outer piece is stuck in. Having a rough time with it. Like a crimped 2 part seal. That should not come apart.

I have worked on many automotive/truck seals before... This one is a little different.

 

[Brian Ski]

"Also if a parts book is showing “2 required” that means one for each side."
-Yes, one big oil seal per side with two lips, as it came from factory. With individual seals now, Brian would need 4 seals to get the same number of sealing lips.

"As far as drill the seal to put a screw etc. in it to remove it I think you’ll be fine if you’re careful when it pops through. Those bearings are pretty tough, a little drill bit kiss won’t hurt it."
-True, as long as the drill bit doesn't go through to the balls. I just suggested the seal puller because it's easier and faster, and it tends to be more forgiving than drilling holes and putting screws in. I've tried both ways, and for me, drilling and screws did not work at all. Just my personal experience though, his might be different.

Since this side is messed up I will try to get a picture of the other side... Might as well do both side... Also hard to say if the other side has been worked on before. The newer one I crossed to, is a double lip. So it may seal better.

As hard as the steel in this seal is, it is tough to remove. I think the ones we use now are made of thinner/softer metal. I never used a seal puller before. But with the shaft in the middle it may be tougher to fit in around it.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Brian Ski]

Another note: when you took off the bolt and washer that holds the drum on, was there a cork gasket between them and the shaft?

And also, are you planning on doing any work with the brakes?

Please feel free to ask more questions if you have them!

When I pulled the bolt there was a double washer... The thick one and the thin one. I did not get a good look, but the thin one was in good shape. It could have been cork.

Brake material looked ok at first glance. Mix... The right side was leaking oil and brake was wet. Left side was rusty and sticking. Plans were to replace the seals and clean them well. This is not going back to a farm tractor. It is my Son's and he wants to have it fixed up... It needs a lot of work... But I can't sit still.

Appreciate the help.

 

[560Dennis]

This video should help you with your project.

 

[used red MN]

Like Used red said... the seals are steel with a band of leather in the middle of them.

I think PbyIH said that. A couple of times on here I have seen folks saying “my new seals don’t fit part number says they are right” Then their picture shows the outer steel casing still in the bore.

 

[Brian Ski]

Another note: when you took off the bolt and washer that holds the drum on, was there a cork gasket between them and the shaft?

I looked again. No I did not see any cork gasket... What I was looking at was the washer... it was stamped kind of rough and looked like 2 pieces.

 

[Brian Ski]

one big oil seal per side with two lips, as it came from factory. With individual seals now, Brian would need 4 seals to get the same number of sealing lips.

I think PbyIH said that. A couple of times on here I have seen folks saying “my new seals don’t fit part number says they are right” Then their picture shows the outer steel casing still in the bore.

A picture is worth a 1000 words. I finally pulled the second seal and the outer sleeve I butchered the heck out of it. Until I was done and figured it out. I was trying to just pull the outer seal with the sleeve. (I thought it was part of the seal.) That was a horrible mess. But got it out. Then I gave up and tried pulling the inner seal with the sleeve. Not sure if that can be done either. It would move till it hit the bent up parts of the out sleeve.

Basically it is 2 seals in a sleeve "pack".

Thanks for the video... It made it much clearer.

I think the best way is to pull both seals and then the outer sleeve.

Appreciate the help!!!