Cheap Carbs

[Ken-Ark]

I bought a cheap $38 carb a few years ago . I took it apart today . The screws and such were not metric and consistent with what would come is a cheap rebuild kit . None of the screws had thread locker applied and removed easily .

The top half bolted to an old MS bottom and the bottom half to an Old MS top . The shafts , choke plate , screws . needle , seat interchanged .

The sintered drain appears the same size . I did not remove it since it is swedged in place and would probably destroy the base trying to remove it intact . The hole in the new carb drain is about .035 where the MS carb is about .200

I did not remove the jets .

The float is some kind of plastic . May be good if it is fuel / ethanol resistant . It is not going to collapse .

The Venturi is very sloppy cast zinc ? The air flowing through it looks ok , but the air seal for the air flow around it looks likely to leak vacuum .

The biggest problem is there are NO seals on the shafts . Just a snug fit to the base metal .

The drain plug has the right thread count but is not tapered . A pipe plug may work . I would want to tap it first . The fuel inlet was also in issue but could be used with a little help .

The needle has a rubber ? tip and a spring loaded ball on the float end .

The ports to let fuel enter the main jet look very restrictive compared to the MS carbs . They are one drilled hole on each side , 2 total .

I would say they are good parts donors . They would probably be OK for a few years IF you overhauled them first , but nobody wants to buy a new carb just to rebuild it first .

 

[Ultradog MN]

I bought a cheap $38 carb a few years ago . I took it apart today . The screws and such were not metric and consistent with what would come is a cheap rebuild kit . None of the screws had thread locker applied and removed easily .

The top half bolted to an old MS bottom and the bottom half to an Old MS top . The shafts , choke plate , screws . needle , seat interchanged .

The sintered drain appears the same size . I did not remove it since it is swedged in place and would probably destroy the base trying to remove it intact . The hole in the new carb drain is about .035 where the MS carb is about .200

I did not remove the jets .

The float is some kind of plastic . May be good if it is fuel / ethanol resistant . It is not going to collapse .

The Venturi is very sloppy cast zinc ? The air flowing through it looks ok , but the air seal for the air flow around it looks likely to leak vacuum .

The biggest problem is there are NO seals on the shafts . Just a snug fit to the base metal .

The drain plug has the right thread count but is not tapered . A pipe plug may work . I would want to tap it first . The fuel inlet was also in issue but could be used with a little help .

The needle has a rubber ? tip and a spring loaded ball on the float end .

The ports to let fuel enter the main jet look very restrictive compared to the MS carbs . They are one drilled hole on each side , 2 total .

I would say they are good parts donors . They would probably be OK for a few years IF you overhauled them first , but nobody wants to buy a new carb just to rebuild it first .

They are still making those MS carbs.
I can't tell you where the machining is done or where the innards come from but the bowls and covers are cast in a small, hi tech foundry right behind my house.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

I bought a cheap $38 carb a few years ago . I took it apart today . The screws and such were not metric and consistent with what would come is a cheap rebuild kit . None of the screws had thread locker applied and removed easily .

The top half bolted to an old MS bottom and the bottom half to an Old MS top . The shafts , choke plate , screws . needle , seat interchanged .

The sintered drain appears the same size . I did not remove it since it is swedged in place and would probably destroy the base trying to remove it intact . The hole in the new carb drain is about .035 where the MS carb is about .200

I did not remove the jets .

The float is some kind of plastic . May be good if it is fuel / ethanol resistant . It is not going to collapse .

The Venturi is very sloppy cast zinc ? The air flowing through it looks ok , but the air seal for the air flow around it looks likely to leak vacuum .

The biggest problem is there are NO seals on the shafts . Just a snug fit to the base metal .

The drain plug has the right thread count but is not tapered . A pipe plug may work . I would want to tap it first . The fuel inlet was also in issue but could be used with a little help .

The needle has a rubber ? tip and a spring loaded ball on the float end .

The ports to let fuel enter the main jet look very restrictive compared to the MS carbs . They are one drilled hole on each side , 2 total .

I would say they are good parts donors . They would probably be OK for a few years IF you overhauled them first , but nobody wants to buy a new carb just to rebuild it first .

Yep, you get what you pay for. 1st know that these Cheena made parts are just clones of clones of clones and no legal engineering was authorized or went into their design. I never found any cheap aftermarket clones that didn't have any metric fasteners. Check the 4 screws that secure the top half to the bottom. Next is why would anyone, Cheena or MS, apply any threadlocking or puckey to a carb? It just was never done by M/S anyway and certainly not needed. The new plastic Floats and Venturis are junk. New, OEM-style brass ones are available at about $20 each. The newer Needle Valve has a 3rd part added - a spring clip that attaches to the float. Miss it or get it wrong and the float won't work right. Why did someone decide it needed to be changed? Not M/S or FORD. The tip is Viton and is supposed to be HD and last longer. Who says? Show me the data. I've reused old original brass ones with a little dressing up on the points and they all worked fine. I saved all my old M/S Carb parts just for occasions like this. Some Carb Kits will have the OEM style Needle and Valve but almost all will have a Viton tip. On the cheap clones too I've found tin throttle and choke plates, steel/tin screws for them, and have had fit problems with shaft screws lining up correctly. What do you consider is the right thread count for the drain plug? Have you tried an OEM Drain Plug? It is 1/8 NPT. I wouldn't be tapping anything if you don't know and if the one already existing works fine. The fact that there are no felt and/or rubber seals on shafts is proof that no engineering was ever done. The 9 year old kid in Cheena assembling these has no clue and there certainly isn't any testing or preliminary settings made. Never expect any cheap clone to operate efficiently right out of the box. Applies to all aftermarket parts sold today.


Marvel-Schebler was part of Borg-Warner Corp and, no, they are no longer in business. I have rebuilt over 300 M/S carbs in my life, most all for FORD TRACTORS, most M/S but have had to work on a few cheap clones for customers. I cringed every time a client demanded I rebuild his clone instead of trading up for a M/S rebuild. I won't work on any clone any more.

FWIW & FYI: Needle & Float Valve uses a fiber gasket too. Be sure old one is free when installing the new one. NO PERMATEX or THREADLOCKING USED! My tools include an old Craftsman Chisel that has a wide blade. Required to install the seat with to prevent damage to the slot on the brass seat. I also advise to use a 3/8'- 6-PT DEEP WELL SOCKET and screwdriver handle and a 1/4" DRIVE Socket Wrench for installing the Main Needle Jet Stem with.

So you have a parts unit for your clones. I'll stick to M/S thank you very much.

Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Hobo,NC]

I bought a cheap $38 carb a few years ago . I took it apart today . The screws and such were not metric and consistent with what would come is a cheap rebuild kit . None of the screws had thread locker applied and removed easily .

The top half bolted to an old MS bottom and the bottom half to an Old MS top . The shafts , choke plate , screws . needle , seat interchanged .

The sintered drain appears the same size . I did not remove it since it is swedged in place and would probably destroy the base trying to remove it intact . The hole in the new carb drain is about .035 where the MS carb is about .200

I did not remove the jets .

The float is some kind of plastic . May be good if it is fuel / ethanol resistant . It is not going to collapse .

The Venturi is very sloppy cast zinc ? The air flowing through it looks ok , but the air seal for the air flow around it looks likely to leak vacuum .

The biggest problem is there are NO seals on the shafts . Just a snug fit to the base metal .

The drain plug has the right thread count but is not tapered . A pipe plug may work . I would want to tap it first . The fuel inlet was also in issue but could be used with a little help .

The needle has a rubber ? tip and a spring loaded ball on the float end .

The ports to let fuel enter the main jet look very restrictive compared to the MS carbs . They are one drilled hole on each side , 2 total .

I would say they are good parts donors . They would probably be OK for a few years IF you overhauled them first , but nobody wants to buy a new carb just to rebuild it first .

I had a spare I took off a N that idled great but did not run well off throttle. I found (with help here) the econ jet to be to large and the venturi to be sloppy as you stated. I used a used venturi from a parts donor. An original is to long I put it in a press and shorten it : ) Its in my parts stash waiting for a tractor to try it out.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

The Super C got a chinesium zenith clone carb about 10 years ago. I think I paid 25 dollars. It is completely unadjustable. It will start beautifully every time no matter how cold but there is a hesitation when given throttle and if you don't let it warm up it will die. Other than that it has functioned quite amazingly for what it is never floods never backfires. For awhile it was the only vehicle when we lived in town that would reliably start below 0. If I had had the money back then or if it was painted green I wouldn't have done it but it is red so you know...

 

[Ken-Ark]

Yep, you get what you pay for. 1st know that these Cheena made parts are just clones of clones of clones and no legal engineering was authorized or went into their design. I never found any cheap aftermarket clones that didn't have any metric fasteners. Check the 4 screws that secure the top half to the bottom. Next is why would anyone, Cheena or MS, apply any threadlocking or puckey to a carb? It just was never done by M/S anyway and certainly not needed. The new plastic Floats and Venturis are junk. New, OEM-style brass ones are available at about $20 each. The newer Needle Valve has a 3rd part added - a spring clip that attaches to the float. Miss it or get it wrong and the float won't work right. Why did someone decide it needed to be changed? Not M/S or FORD. The tip is Viton and is supposed to be HD and last longer. Who says? Show me the data. I've reused old original brass ones with a little dressing up on the points and they all worked fine. I saved all my old M/S Carb parts just for occasions like this. Some Carb Kits will have the OEM style Needle and Valve but almost all will have a Viton tip. On the cheap clones too I've found tin throttle and choke plates, steel/tin screws for them, and have had fit problems with shaft screws lining up correctly. What do you consider is the right thread count for the drain plug? Have you tried an OEM Drain Plug? It is 1/8 NPT. I wouldn't be tapping anything if you don't know and if the one already existing works fine. The fact that there are no felt and/or rubber seals on shafts is proof that no engineering was ever done. The 9 year old kid in Cheena assembling these has no clue and there certainly isn't any testing or preliminary settings made. Never expect any cheap clone to operate efficiently right out of the box. Applies to all aftermarket parts sold today.


Marvel-Schebler was part of Borg-Warner Corp and, no, they are no longer in business. I have rebuilt over 300 M/S carbs in my life, most all for FORD TRACTORS, most M/S but have had to work on a few cheap clones for customers. I cringed every time a client demanded I rebuild his clone instead of trading up for a M/S rebuild. I won't work on any clone any more.

FWIW & FYI: Needle & Float Valve uses a fiber gasket too. Be sure old one is free when installing the new one. NO PERMATEX or THREADLOCKING USED! My tools include an old Craftsman Chisel that has a wide blade. Required to install the seat with to prevent damage to the slot on the brass seat. I also advise to use a 3/8'- 6-PT DEEP WELL SOCKET and screwdriver handle and a 1/4" DRIVE Socket Wrench for installing the Main Needle Jet Stem with.

So you have a parts unit for your clones. I'll stick to M/S thank you very much.

Tim Daley (MI)

I used the four screws to fasten the new top to the MS base .

I have disassembled lots of overseas parts that had thread locker even though it did not need it . I'm not going to guess why they did .

There was no spring holding the needle to the float on this unit .

The choke plate assembly actually looked decent . Brass screws . I did not check the size . They were not very tight .

I did not call the drain 1/8 npt because it is not tapered . It is 27 threads per inch . Their drain plug has a gasket . I use 1/8" draincocks which only got a few threads . The new drain plug screwed into the MS base no problem . I only got a few turns on the correct fuel inlet before it started getting tight . It needs a little help .

I have all of the specialty tools I need and about a dozen extra 33's / 241's . I have been on this form 20+ years .

This topic comes up often but not many details . Some people buy a $350 tractor that's missing the carb but don't want to spend $100 on a core . Some people are going to shade tree it and some are going to spend $2500 . All we can do is let them know the pro's and con's .

 

[Hobo,NC]

I had a spare I took off a N that idled great but did not run well off throttle. I found (with help here) the econ jet to be to large and the venturi to be sloppy as you stated. I used a used venturi from a parts donor. An original is to long I put it in a press and shorten it : ) Its in my parts stash waiting for a tractor to try it out.

I should have said a new spare knock off like in your pix. Other that it looked identical where the top and bottom mate one are the other has two dowels. That was interesting cuzz the gasket was punched bigger for the dowels.

 

[Ken-Ark]

I used the four screws to fasten the new top to the MS base .

I have disassembled lots of overseas parts that had thread locker even though it did not need it . I'm not going to guess why they did .

There was no spring holding the needle to the float on this unit .

The choke plate assembly actually looked decent . Brass screws . I did not check the size . They were not very tight .

I did not call the drain 1/8 npt because it is not tapered . It is 27 threads per inch . Their drain plug has a gasket . I use 1/8" draincocks which only got a few threads . The new drain plug screwed into the MS base no problem . I only got a few turns on the correct fuel inlet before it started getting tight . It needs a little help .

I have all of the specialty tools I need and about a dozen extra 33's / 241's . I have been on this form 20+ years .

This topic comes up often but not many details . Some people buy a $350 tractor that's missing the carb but don't want to spend $100 on a core . Some people are going to shade tree it and some are going to spend $2500 . All we can do is let them know the pro's and con's .

I need to edit my post . The 4 screws that hold the top half are not 1/4 - 20 . They are very close and physically worked but not correct . Same with the plug and fuel inlet . Very close but sloppy . I will probably never see if I can tap it with an 1/8 npt . I have too many other things on my list .

 

[Dave G9N]

Is there any defective part in the chinese carb that can account for the inability to go uphill forward?

It is a common problem with them. I have one tat will not clime a 5° slope forward, and has a very hard time accelerating in 3rd, especially with the high range (Sherman). Reverse is no problem, but having to back up on a hill is rather inconvenient.

 

[Hobo,NC]

See my post, I think that was the problem it sounds like yours.

 

[Dave G9N]

The ports to let fuel enter the main jet look very restrictive compared to the MS carbs . They are one drilled hole on each side , 2 total .

Is this shown in the picture labelled orf? If so, where is that?

There was an amazon review that said the uphill problem was fixed by drilling out a hole or holes, but I couldn't make enough sense out of that description to figure out which holes the review was describing.

Hobo, you said that yours idled and did not run well off throttle. What I have doesn't idle very well, but does have power on a level or downhill surface. It just can't go uphill. I have a 5° slope ending in about 20 feet that is a little steeper. With a running start it can barely make the first part in 2nd with enough speed (~3-4 mph) to stumble the last 20 feet. Sometimes the choke helps.

 

[JMOR]

Is this shown in the picture labelled orf? If so, where is that?

There was an amazon review that said the uphill problem was fixed by drilling out a hole or holes, but I couldn't make enough sense out of that description to figure out which holes the review was describing.

Hobo, you said that yours idled and did not run well off throttle. What I have doesn't idle very well, but does have power on a level or downhill surface. It just can't go uphill. I have a 5° slope ending in about 20 feet that is a little steeper. With a running start it can barely make the first part in 2nd with enough speed (~3-4 mph) to stumble the last 20 feet. Sometimes the choke helps.

First thing I would look at on the "hill" problem would be float level.