Ford 4000 Spits Sputters when at temp

[H2O_Control_Guy]

Good Morning,
I have a 1967 vintage (3 cyl) gas 4000. I was disking with it and it was working hard, but not so hard it was overheating. Anyway I would normally disk in Low 4th and when I would start out it would spit and sputter to the point where it would kill the engine. downshift to low 3rd and it would spit an sputter a little bit, but once it got going it would disk just fine. Once I was done disking I hooked it to the corn planter and planted my little 3 acre food plot. By the time I was done planting the spit a sputter quit. Pulling the planter is certainly not as hard a work as disk so I think tractor cooled down some.

I'm thinking it could be a couple things. One is I could not find Non oxy gas so I ended up running 87 octane with 10 or 15% alcohol so wondering if not some sort of vapor locking issue.

A while back I had a condenser go bad because of temperature. At that time the The tractor would be running fine then just quit spit a few times then just quit. Once it cooled off the tractor would restart. I replaced the condenser and the problem went away.

In full disclosure I put new plugs and plug wires on it last fall. I did not put a rotor cap because it was replaced two years earlier and I only run the tractor ~ 40 hours per year. By the way I had a very difficult time getting the plug wires to stay on the plugs. pretty confident it is no longer a plug wire issue because once the tractor was pulling the load and running it was not missing. Lots of screwing around till I got the plug wires to say in place.

Any ideas would be much appreciated.

Thanks

John B

 

[4wdtom]

Is it running lean?

 

[Steve@Advance]

I would suspect weak or intermittent spark.

Revisit the points and condenser, check the gap, check the distributor shaft for side play.

The quality of today's ignition parts is just not there anymore.

Might consider a Pertronix electronic conversion.

I doubt the fuel is an issue. Ethanol gas runs ok, it's just the storage and degradation of rubber that causes problems.

Did you try a partial choke? If that helps it may be too lean or a fuel delivery problem, but even choking can help with weak spark.

 

[H2O_Control_Guy]

Ok that is the other part of the story I did not post. I put a new carb on it last summer as well. If I look in the mirror honestly that sort of thing is right at the limit of my capability. So to answer your question is yes it could be running lean. Could you provide guidance or point me someplance Youtube etc that could guide me to determine if it is running lean.

For the record I disked probably 10 -12 rounds before the spitting and sputtering started. If it was running lean would it spit and sputter from the start?

Thanks,

JohnB

 

[Steve@Advance]

Not likely the mixture is SET too lean, but it can lean out if the carb is being starved for gas.

Being it ran that long before the problem started, was the tank getting low?

If there is a fuel restriction it will get worse as the tank gets closer to empty, especially if it is a gravity flow or the pump is weak.

There is likely a screen in the fitting at the carb. Even though the carb is new, if there is contamination in the tank it can quickly clog. There is also a screen in the tank above the fuel valve, same thing, it may be clogged.

Check the screen at the carb, take the line loose at the carb, check the flow.

Be sure the tank cap is vented. Under certain conditions the tank can develop a vacuum holding back the fuel flow.

Another thing to check, next time it begins to falter feel the temperature of the coil. If it is considerably hotter than the surrounding components, as in too hot to keep your hand on, it can be failing.

Don't sell your self short, these fuel and ignition systems are designed to be simple and field serviceable. The biggest mistake people make is throwing parts at a problem without testing first. Not only is that expensive, it can compound problems!

Just work one area at a time. Ask plenty of questions. A shop manual can be a life saver! Advise is good, but nothing beats having verifiable information in hand when you need it most!

 

[Steve in IL]

I'll 2X Steve's advice to consider an electronic ignition from Pertronics. I put one on my 4000, and it starts and runs great.

 

[H2O_Control_Guy]

Thanks!

 

[Destroked 450]

Have you checked to fuel system for good fuel flow, my brother fought a similar issue with his 3400 for nearly a year.
There's a screen in the fuel shut off in the tank, another in the fuel pump and one in a sediment bowl.
On his it was the brass filter looking screen in the sediment bowl not allowing enough flow to the carb, spraying it with cleaner won't clean it, has to been unscrewed and cleaned, on his we left it out.

 

[showcrop]

Ford tractors do not spit. It could help a lot if you could give a little description of what it is doing that looks or sounds or feels to you like spitting.

 

[H2O_Control_Guy]

Thanks for requesting more clarity. I'll do my best. I've attached a video of when it is running well. To start this tractor from cold you set the throttle wide open and pull the choke out all the way. It
usually starts quickly after a few cranks. Once it is started you need to keep the clutch in and feather the choke a bit then let it warm up say 15-30 seconds. If you don't and let the clutch out too quickly it
will hesitate (cough) a couple times, then pop pop (spit and sputter) and quit. If this happens and you engage the clutch again quickly and fiddle with the choke it will begin to run smooth after a minute or
two you can let the clutch out the tractor will run at full speed or idle etc. Then engage clutch and drive/use as normal.

All of the above to say the sound that came out of it as previously described is very similar.

Hope that helps.
[video play=false:654c4848f0]https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvvideos/cvvideo4527.mp4[/video:654c4848f0]

 

[Deutz Lover]

We have seen a rash of bad condensers in the last couple of years. They are foreign made and suck. Saw one that had two bad ones in a row. It took forever to find this out. Buy a U.S made condenser and if you have Champion spark plugs put Autolite or NGK in.

If its not fuel its probably condenser or coil going bad. Coil gets warm and starts shorting or opening up.

 

[H2O_Control_Guy]

Thanks, I will checkout and make changes if needed! I'm not sure on the plugs. The tractor is 150 miles away so I'll check the next time out.

Regards,

John B

 

[Leroy]

You don't need anything else but that87 octain normal 10% ethanol gas. They will run fine on that. I had a 65, 68 4000 and a 68 5000 and all were good on that. They do NOT vapor lock if fuel system is anything like factory. When my 5000 started acting simular I too it to the local Ford tractor dealer to get fixed, Could find nothing and thought was my imagnation.. Turns out they did not know anything about a gas engine, only diesel. I took carb off and took it to a long time Ford tractor dealer mechanic that Ford decided his dealership was too small they no longer wanted him. He tore carb apart and founf aclerator pump was not working, fact is it was froze into its bore hard enough he could not get it out. Had to send it out to someplace with more tooles than he had to get the piece cut out. When it was finally able to be rebuilt I put it back on and tractor ran just fine with no adjustments needed., So find a good carb repairman and your troubles might just be gone. Have no idea why yours would be overheating. Mine would start to act up after a couple of hours heavy run time.

 

[H2O_Control_Guy]

Thanks, that is pretty much exactly the symptoms I have. Tractor does not overheat. It just runs at a high temp when doing hard work say plowing or disking than when pull a wagon or sittin on the log splitter.

Thanks,

JohnB

 

[Deutz Lover]

I did not know tractor carburetors had an accelerator pump. I know my cousin's Super C does not have one.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 14:28:31 05/15/20) I did not know tractor carburetors had an accelerator pump. I know my cousin's Super C does not have one.

Most don't some do. Some Fords came with Holley carburetors with accelerator pumps

 

[Deutz Lover]

Thanks Showcrop. So does the 4000 have a Holley?


Also, a condenser can be checked by temporarily removing the lead to the points and taping the lead. a working condenser minimizes the arching/wear/burning between the points. You should know immediately if the condenser is bad when you crank the tractor.