Help me understand remote hydraulics

[joshbruce128]

Hello all,
I have a Ford 851 that currently has no auxiliary/remote hydraulics. I recently purchased a post pounder I'd like to get going. What I am having a hard time with is what exactly I need on the tractor to be able to hook up. I thought I needed this control valve: Valve

But then after some thinking it didn't make much sense to me to have a control valve before the control valve of the pounder... Seems I just need a way to energize/pressurize the valve of the pounder so I found this: Plate Kit

That makes the most sense as it will allow me to put hydraulic pressure to the control valve of the pounder. The return line of the pounder would have an adapter of some sort to dump hydraulic fluid directly back into the hydraulics of the tractor (fill cap) so as it's not impeded by going through the valve body. Is my thinking/assumptions correct? If so, could I plug the return side of the valve plate? The warning on the installation instructions state: Do not start engine until a complete circuit is installed between pressure and return ports or it will cause hydraulic system to overheat. It also says to use a loop between pressure and return ports when not in use.

Help this make sense to me.... Maybe there is something I am missing entirely here and I will probably feel pretty silly once that is pointed out.

 

[paul]

I’m as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to hydraulics…..

The old Ford is an open center hydraulic setup, so oil is always flowing out the pressure port, and always needs to come back to the oil reserve.

We don’t really know if your post pounder hydraulics is an open or closed configuration. So will it’s control valve allow the oil to flow past when not in use, or is it the type that opens and closes without allowing free oil to pass by? So,e can be set either way with the right plugs open and closed….

If your post pounder is not mounted on the tractor, you would need to somehow continue oil circulating out of the pressure port and back into the oil reserve. You couldn’t just remove and cap the ports. This gets kind of goofy with having to store when in use, route messy hoses when not in use….

If you are in this deep to the project, I would very strongly suggest putting in the tractor control valve in any case. It then opens up your tractor to be used with any hyd implement or attachment you get in the future, or makes your tractor more valuable if you wish to trade it off.

Paul

 

[joshbruce128]

Paul,

The tractor control valve you mentioned, is that what I have in the first link "valve" I have listed above? I have no issue with that I just want to understand the working of it. So that valve is an open design allowing constant flow? And does that valve have a lock or detent allowing me to control the pounder from the pounder valve solely?

That valve would also allow me to use a rake I have with a left/right direction cylinder. Currently I just pull it straight.

Be patient with me, I'm not too smart haha

 

[TheOldHokie]

Hello all,
I have a Ford 851 that currently has no auxiliary/remote hydraulics. I recently purchased a post pounder I'd like to get going. What I am having a hard time with is what exactly I need on the tractor to be able to hook up. I thought I needed this control valve: Valve

But then after some thinking it didn't make much sense to me to have a control valve before the control valve of the pounder... Seems I just need a way to energize/pressurize the valve of the pounder so I found this: Plate Kit

That makes the most sense as it will allow me to put hydraulic pressure to the control valve of the pounder. The return line of the pounder would have an adapter of some sort to dump hydraulic fluid directly back into the hydraulics of the tractor (fill cap) so as it's not impeded by going through the valve body. Is my thinking/assumptions correct? If so, could I plug the return side of the valve plate? The warning on the installation instructions state: Do not start engine until a complete circuit is installed between pressure and return ports or it will cause hydraulic system to overheat. It also says to use a loop between pressure and return ports when not in use.

Help this make sense to me.... Maybe there is something I am missing entirely here and I will probably feel pretty silly once that is pointed out.

Almost but that will disable your 3pt which will make moving the pounder a little tough.!!!

You want a continuous flow power beyond loop to supply both the pounder and the 3pt and the plate is all you need. Connect two hoses to the ports on the plate and run them to the rear of the tractor.

Put a female quick coupler on the hose that supplies pressure out and a male coupler on the return hose.

Use those two oitlets to supply your post pounder, log splitter, rake, or anything else that has its own valve.

NOW VERY IMPORtANT THING

When the rear outlets are not in use you MUST connect them together. If you do not you will be running the pump against the pressure relief and that is not good for the pump.

Dan

 

[Sean in PA]

That plate kit has a return port in it as well as the pressure out port. You need to connect the return line from the pounder to that return port. If you connect the return line to dump directly into the hydraulic sump, the 3 point lift will no longer operate. The plate diverts the hydraulic flow before it gets to the 3 point lift system and the flow must return through the return port of the plate to continue on and power the 3 point lift. Also, whenever the lines for the pounder are not connected to the plate, you must loop the output port on the plate to the return port. If you simply plug the ports on the plate you will dead head the pump and running it like that for very long can damage the pump.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Many of the pounders need a larger return line than the port on that valve can handle.

My Shaver brand pound has a 1.25" discharge hose that needs to flow unobstructed back to tank. You can not return it thru any sort of coupler, valve body, etc. If you do it will fall slowly and not drive the post at best, or at worst blow the return hose off or pop the cylinder seals.

 

[joshbruce128]

Many of the pounders need a larger return line than the port on that valve can handle.

My Shaver brand pound has a 1.25" discharge hose that needs to flow unobstructed back to tank. You can not return it thru any sort of coupler, valve body, etc. If you do it will fall slowly and not drive the post at best, or at worst blow the return hose off or pop the cylinder seals.

This is exactly the problem I am worried about with using that plate kit. Thank you for clearing that up. So, how on earth am I going to hook this bad boy up? Haha

 

[joshbruce128]

That plate kit has a return port in it as well as the pressure out port. You need to connect the return line from the pounder to that return port. If you connect the return line to dump directly into the hydraulic sump, the 3 point lift will no longer operate. The plate diverts the hydraulic flow before it gets to the 3 point lift system and the flow must return through the return port of the plate to continue on and power the 3 point lift. Also, whenever the lines for the pounder are not connected to the plate, you must loop the output port on the plate to the return port. If you simply plug the ports on the plate you will dead head the pump and running it like that for very long can damage the pump.

Very good explanation of how the plate works, I appreciate it! After reading chevytaHOE5674 reply, I don't believe the plate will suit my needs as I need unrestricted return flow for the pounder to well.... pound. Now I need just as detailed of a description on how the single and double action valves work to understand if that's my best option.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

My Shaver you need a control valve on the tractor to either detent or bungy cord one direction to supply oil to the pounder valve, then use the valve on the pounder to do your work, putting the discharge hose into the hyd fill port.

When your not pounding release the tractor valve and use the 3pt hitch as needed.

My Shaver has an open center valve mounted to it. So when you have the tractor valve locked in "constant flow" but aren't actively pounding, oil flows from the tractor valve thru the pounder valve and out the discharge hose.

 

[Sean in PA]

If that is the case, then you can't use that plate. As I said, that plate needs the return port connected to the implement for the 3 point lift to work. I would recommend a diverter valve, also known as a selector valve, to redirect the hydraulic flow to the control valve on the pounder and then plumb the return line from the pounder to the hydraulic sump. Here is a Link to selector valve here on Yesterdays Tractors. You just pull out on the knob on the selector knob when you want to use the pounder and push it in when you want to use the 3 point lift.

 

[joshbruce128]

chevytaHOE5674 & Sean in PA,

Thank you both. I like the idea of installing a single/double action valve as I posted originally. If this will work.... do either of you know if these one has a detent? That could do very well for me if I could use it for the pounder with the return line tapped into the fill cap. I could also use the valve to operate a rake I have. Would it be OK to use one side and not the other for this application or is there any continuous flow requirement as on the plate?

I am not opposed to the sector valve, if it would be the best option.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

My Ford 5000 has 1 set of rear remotes (2 hoses out the back). I plug the pounder into one of those hoses, put the discharge hose into the fill port (with a pvc adaptor of sorts), then pull the tractor valve one direction (giving pressure to that 1 hose) and putting a bungy cord on it. Then get off the tractor and pound away.

The valve on my tractor is OEM, but serves the same function as the one you have posted.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Many of the pounders need a larger return line than the port on that valve can handle.

My Shaver brand pound has a 1.25" discharge hose that needs to flow unobstructed back to tank. You can not return it thru any sort of coupler, valve body, etc. If you do it will fall slowly and not drive the post at best, or at worst blow the return hose off or pop the cylinder seals.

My Shaver you need a control valve on the tractor to either detent or bungy cord one direction to supply oil to the pounder valve, then use the valve on the pounder to do your work, putting the discharge hose into the hyd fill port.

When your not pounding release the tractor valve and use the 3pt hitch as needed.

My Shaver has an open center valve mounted to it. So when you have the tractor valve locked in "constant flow" but aren't actively pounding, oil flows from the tractor valve thru the pounder valve and out the discharge hose.

Thats a great solution to the return problem AND it gets you a set of real remotes.

Dan

 

[joshbruce128]

Fantastic! Thank you all for the knowledge and patience

 

[paul]

If that is the case, then you can't use that plate. As I said, that plate needs the return port connected to the implement for the 3 point lift to work. I would recommend a diverter valve, also known as a selector valve, to redirect the hydraulic flow to the control valve on the pounder and then plumb the return line from the pounder to the hydraulic sump. Here is a Link to selector valve here on Yesterdays Tractors. You just pull out on the knob on the selector knob when you want to use the pounder and push it in when you want to use the 3 point lift.

The plate and the original type selector valve for the tractor should work fine?

You can’t use the 3pt and the pounder at the exact same time, but using the levers on the tractor and on the pounder you can select which one is functioning at a time.

Anyhow, as I would understand it.

The pounder will need a big hose I believe you dump into the opening one would add hyd oil to behind the seat.

There are several different types of original selector levers. Ours does not have a detent, but a bungee cord or a block of wood under it works fine to hold it open.

 

[Destroked 450]

chevytaHOE5674 & Sean in PA,

Thank you both. I like the idea of installing a single/double action valve as I posted originally. If this will work.... do either of you know if these one has a detent? That could do very well for me if I could use it for the pounder with the return line tapped into the fill cap. I could also use the valve to operate a rake I have. Would it be OK to use one side and not the other for this application or is there any continuous flow requirement as on the plate?

I am not opposed to the sector valve, if it would be the best option.

That particular vale does not have detent so you’ll have to bungee cord it
Even if it did have detent it’s best to bungee it to keep it from tripping out while your working the post driver valve

 

[TheOldHokie]

chevytaHOE5674 & Sean in PA,

Thank you both. I like the idea of installing a single/double action valve as I posted originally. If this will work.... do either of you know if these one has a detent? That could do very well for me if I could use it for the pounder with the return line tapped into the fill cap. I could also use the valve to operate a rake I have. Would it be OK to use one side and not the other for this application or is there any continuous flow requirement as on the plate?

I am not opposed to the sector valve, if it would be the best option.

 

[TheOldHokie]

The only advantage to using a selector valve is you dont need a bungee to hold it in position. The directional control valve is essentialy doing the same thing and it gives you added functionality.

Dan

 

[Sean in PA]

The only advantage to using a selector valve is you dont need a bungee to hold it in position. The directional control valve is essentialy doing the same thing and it gives you added functionality.

Dan

Yes, but if his only use for external hydraulics is the pounder, a selector valve is less expensive.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Yes, but if his only use for external hydraulics is the pounder, a selector valve is less expensive.

I think he has already established he has a use fir the directional valve..

Dan