new tool to carry on the tractor for critter control

[graygander]

Been looking for a new(used) rifle to carry on the tractor(also in the truck) I have narrowed it down to 2 choices. First is ruger mini 14, can get a good deal on a police trade in. I don't have anything in 223 cal. but I've always kinda wanted one. Second is a marlin 1894c in 357/38. its the newer Remington made version but it shoots just fine.I like that it can share ammo with my revolver and I've always liked lever guns. Just looking for some input to help me make up my mind. I live in West Va so I don't have to worry about any restrictions but I would rather stick with something traditional...wood stock..etc... any help will be appreciated

 

[Janicholson]

I think I would go with the Marlin. Bigger hole in the varment, and utility of loading/and pistol use. Jim

 

[JD Seller]

I would also think the Marlin would be better. I am not a big fan of the .223.

 

[D beatty]

If I was going to buy a 357 mag lever action I would take a Henry over the new Marlin-Remington. Henry is a well built rifle compared to the new Marlin.

 

[Goose]

3.5 rocket launcher.

 

[John - OH]

Perhaps just get both, then you'll be sure to have the right one.

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

d beatty; I have a Marlin lever action in 38 spcl/357 mag which I've owned for about 15 years. I've liked it a lot but only ever used it a little. The quality seems quite good. I've heard that the quality of Marlins has declined in recent years. Is that what you're referring to or do you feel that Marlins were never very good? I've also owned a Marlin Model 60 in 22 LR for at least 25 years, and been perfectly satisfied with that.

Stan

 

[D beatty]

The older Marlins are better built compared the new ones. To me Marlin- Remington quality is slipping. I have 2 older( 20 years) Marlins one is a model 25 bolt action .22 mag and the other is the Model 60 ss with the gray laminated stock.

 

[2x4]

Used to live in WV. Had Mini 14 .223. Killed a truckload of deer with it over 20 years. 5,10,20 &30 rd. magazines made it ready for anything & fit anywhere with its short length. Can't go wrong. Ammo is cheap & everywhere.

 

[dahlin]

If you live in a populated area I think I would go with the 357-38 Marlin 223 travel lots further. Randy

 

[Stephen Newell]

A 223 rifle is kind of big for a varmint rifle. It's so important to know where the bullet will stop and 223 is large enough to pass through small trees. You might be better off with a carbine.

 

[Bret4207]

(quoted from post at 09:14:48 08/05/18) A 223 rifle is kind of big for a varmint rifle. It's so important to know where the bullet will stop and 223 is large enough to pass through small trees. You might be better off with a carbine.

Holy crap. A Mini 14 IS a carbine, a 223 is at the lower end of the spectrum for a varmint cartridge and a 357 bullet is far more likely to pass through a tree of any size than a 223 varmint bullet. I hate to sound like a rude know it all, but the lack of firearms knowledge displayed here is appalling.

Flame away... :shock:

 

[old-9]

My thought is how slow it is to load the lever auction vs the box mag. Can carry the .223 empty and be safer/faster to deploy and easy to unload. That said where I live the .357 is legal to hunt deer. joe

 

[graygander]

well you all know murphys law.... The exhaust fell off the wifes jeep this morning. Not surprised I have welded it up a couple times already. Gonna have to replace the converter too, Between rockauto and amazon I can get it all for just under $300. That kinda leaves me a little short for a new rifle... the old SKS has served me well it can go a while longer. Thanks for the replies folks.

 

[ss55]

A 30/30 has been a traditional a good short range deer rifle for wooded areas, .375/.38 should be similar. Staying with common ammunition between guns can be a money saver. What kind of critters are you taking out, coyotes and smaller?

Your local police resells the weapons they take in? They still destroy all the drugs they take in, right?

 

[Destroked 450]

If the SKS doesn't have the range you need then the 357 won't ether.
The 223 will shoot farther but doesn't have the knock down power like the 30 caliber SKS.

If you like the 7.62x39 round but want a better gun look at the Ruger Mini 30, looks like the Mini 14 but shoots the SKS round.

Anything under 150 yards I'll take the 7.62x39.

All that said my next rifle will be a Henry lever gun in 223 at which point I'll probably sell my AR.

 

[old]

I've killed more animals with an SKS then any other firearm I own. Makes a good varmint rifle out say to 200 yards or so plus a very good deer rifle. My SKS has a scope on it by the way and open sites and a muzzle brake

 

[Traditional Farmer]

.223 caliber would be my choice but get one that will handle the 5.56 ammo which you can get heavier loads for than just a .223.

 

[CGID]

Savage made the break-action Model 24 combination gun: .223 or 30-30 over 12 ga. or.22 over 20 ga. or .410. These are pretty common at gun shows and pawn shops. Currently Savage is making the Model 42 in .22 or .22 mag. over .410. I think a Model 24 in any configuration would make a great tractor gun.

 

[westga]

Just so you know walley marty is clearing out its stock of min 14. Mark down 170 dollars. I found out the other day while purchasing oil for my John deere 40.

 

[old]

I own a sort of rare 44mag pistol and also have a Winchester model 94 lever action rifle in 44mag as a champion gun. Both have taken down a couple of deer but the deer taken by the rifle was not by me I had loaned it to one of my hunters who was having problem with his SKS and not being able to hit he side of a barn with his SKS due to sight problem which I fixed for him a bit latter in the day

 

[graygander]

local wally world had one I was gonna put it on layaway and they marked it down and sold it the same day.. I think one of the boys that worked there called his buddy when they marked it down

 

[graygander]

sks is a fine gun,if something is out of range for it, my old eyes couldn't see well enough to hit it anyway. when I think about it I really don't need to replace it after all

 

[graygander]

mostly coyotes and smaller,but we are starting to have problems with dope growers and other crazy 2 legged critters and I sometimes brushog some really remote fields,hopefully there won't ever be a confrontation but carrying a rifle makes me feel a little more secure.

 

[graygander]

The mini 14 I was looking at was one of a batch that was used by a big city PD and was sold off a few years ago when they switched to AR15's or so I was told

 

[Destroked 450]

What part of WV are you located in, I used to make a lot of deliveries in WV back in the 90's.

 

[buickanddeere]

(quoted from post at 09:59:05 08/05/18) A 30/30 has been a traditional a good short range deer rifle for wooded areas, .375/.38 should be similar. Staying with common ammunition between guns can be a money saver. What kind of critters are you taking out, coyotes and smaller?

Your local police resells the weapons they take in? They still destroy all the drugs they take in, right?

Military here and police make huge fanfare of destroying their old firearms in public view. For the public's safety you know .

 

[Hobo,NC]

A 223 will kill it will go thru 3/8" steel plate like its butter I was shocked at the power it has...

What you need to do is shoot what ever you get it till you are comfortable with it... I don't shoot enoufh as I should it takes me 20 rounds to settle down to were I can nail a bulls eye at 75 yards with open sites...

Shoot'N is not as EZ as it sounds...

I like a .17 HMR its more fun than the law allows...

 

[D beatty]

You can get ammo for 223 that is low penetration that won't go steel or walls. It is designed for home defence.

 

[JL Ray]

I guess the gun doesn't make much difference to me. I'd be more worried about the law catching me with it on my ride. How you going to carry it? In a case? loaded? unloaded. I used to carry a 22 revolver on my mower and had a lot of fun shooting goffers but now days the law is chopping at the bit to catch some one doing something that a anti gun group would just get a kick out of. Just my two cents.

 

[old]

A whole lot depends on what state your in. Where I am we have Constitutional carry so any one that can own a firearm In a legal way can also carry it any way they want. I carry a handgun with me any times I am not at home. I'd love to carry one of the guns I have but it is to big to hide and carry

 

[graygander]

I can carry it in a scabbard bolted to the tractor fender. 100 percent legal here. Just don't be pulling it out and waving it around like an idiot and the law around here will leave you alone. WV is pretty lenient when it comes to guns, we are like number 5 in gun ownership of the 50 states

 

[graygander]

Im in Fayette county in the southern part of the state

 

[Destroked 450]

Back in the 80's I ran 60 out of Charleston up thru Hawks Nest and Rainelle to pick up I64 again because it wasn't finished across Sandstone.
Hauled Navistar diesels to Ford Assembly in Norfolk.
In the 90's I delivered fuel storage tanks to gas stations in and around Beckley as well as coal mines in Mingo and Logan Counties.

Isn't the New River Gorge Bridge in Fayette County.

Beautiful scenery in your area, not much ground for a flatlander though.

 

[graygander]

I live less than 2 miles from the bridge. Its a beautiful place, but it seems like every one from up north is moving here driving up land prices and trying to turn it into what they came here to get away from in the first place.. I'm actually thinking about selling out and moving. Been looking at a place near the bottom of Sandstone...nicer land and cheaper too. Spent some time in Mingo county in the 90's worked several jobs including the flood wall around Matewan. We used to joke that they ought to make every driver go down there and train for a couple months before they turned them loose with a truck. Those roads would weed out the idiots real fast.

 

[Chris(WA)]

Both are nice rounds and guns. Have to vote for the 357/38 if you already have weapons chambered in that caliber. I have a Henry in 357/38. LOVE shooting it! In a heavy lever gun like the Henry it reminds me of shooting 22LR in my smaller framed Ithaca. Accurate and just enough kick to let you know you shot something.
Many a varmint would fall to that gun if I was still on the farm! Enjoy!

 

[rustyfarmall]

(quoted from post at 19:34:47 08/05/18)
A 223 will kill it will go thru 3/8" steel plate like its butter I was shocked at the power it has...

What you need to do is shoot what ever you get it till you are comfortable with it... I don't shoot enoufh as I should it takes me 20 rounds to settle down to were I can nail a bulls eye at 75 yards with open sites...

Shoot'N is not as EZ as it sounds...

I like a .17 HMR its more fun than the law allows...

I made a target from a steel disc blade. Made it so it swings when hit. 9mm, 38 special, 357 magnum, and .45 Colt ALL make that target swing. A .223 will pass right through and just barely cause the target to wiggle.

 

[D beatty]

It depends on what ammo you use in a 223. There is ammo for 223 that won't penetrate a wall let a lone steel.

 

[rustyfarmall]

(quoted from post at 00:57:29 08/08/18) It depends on what ammo you use in a 223. There is ammo for 223 that won't penetrate a wall let a lone steel.

It was fired from a Colt AR15. Ammo was the least expensive stuff my grandson could find.

 

[D beatty]

I was just stating that there is ammo out there for the 223 that will not penetrate steel.

 

[rustyfarmall]

(quoted from post at 07:19:37 08/08/18) I was just stating that there is ammo out there for the 223 that will not penetrate steel.

Yes. I understood that. However, I doubt that my grandson is aware of the different types of ammo that might be available. He has a whole lot of learnin' to do. After just a few rounds through that AR-15, it malfunctioned, so I brought out my lever-action chambered in .45 Colt. Grandson fell in love with that rifle.

 

[D beatty]

I am 71 and grew up around bolt and lever action rifles and my first choice is a bolt and next is lever action but at times I like to play
with a semi auto. Not a whole lot of hunting around here. Getting to be to many houses and people.

 

[the tractor vet]

Well as for me my VARMINT rifle is a Mini 14 , i removed the nice wood stock and put a folding plastic stock on it because it was going to get beat around on the tractor . I also carry a Ruger 22 mag plow handled revolver for the close in work and the first three are snake shot ( hate snakes) . Many years back i was renting ground darn near so far out radio programs were two week late . I had some PEOPLE that decided that they were going to DOUBLE CROP the ground due to the remoteness . The man that owned the ground advised me many years before i started farming it that to never go down there with out back up . With the 223 i can reach out to around 450 yards i have a 3x9 on it and zeroed at 200 . Ammo wise i run a soft tip and keep a 30 round mag in it with three spares .. This way if ya miss a Varmint ya have 29 more to chase it to the hole with be it a four legged CRITTER or TWO. My Mini 14 is and older one and only chambered in 223. When i got it you could buy 223. for less then 22 mag.

 

[Bret4207]

(quoted from post at 18:42:07 08/07/18)

(quoted from post at 19:34:47 08/05/18)
A 223 will kill it will go thru 3/8" steel plate like its butter I was shocked at the power it has...

What you need to do is shoot what ever you get it till you are comfortable with it... I don't shoot enoufh as I should it takes me 20 rounds to settle down to were I can nail a bulls eye at 75 yards with open sites...

Shoot'N is not as EZ as it sounds...

I like a .17 HMR its more fun than the law allows...

I made a target from a steel disc blade. Made it so it swings when hit. 9mm, 38 special, 357 magnum, and .45 Colt ALL make that target swing. A .223 will pass right through and just barely cause the target to wiggle.

That's a function of sheer velocity combined with what is likely a fully jacketed bullet. Back after WW2 there was a lot of experimenting with "sub-calibers" down in the 17 and 14 cal range. They had a 14 cal round that popped a tiny little bullet of something like 15 grains (standard 22LR is 40 grains) out at somewhere close to 5000 feet per second. It would penetrate 1" armor plate like it was a sheet of paper. Does that mean it was "more powerful" than, say, a 357 or 30-30, to say nothing of a 300 Win mag or something larger? No. It just means that energy concentrated in a tiny area acts differently than when you spread the same energy over a larger area. Ballistics is a funny game where what you see often isn't what you think it is.

 

[D beatty]

I have a second generation stainless steel mini 14 from early 80s and is stamped 223. I called Ruger's home office and gave them the serial number of my rifle and was told it would fire 223 or 5.56 with no problems. Ruger is very good about answering any questions about their products.

 

[rustyfarmall]

(quoted from post at 08:37:12 08/08/18)

(quoted from post at 18:42:07 08/07/18)

(quoted from post at 19:34:47 08/05/18)
A 223 will kill it will go thru 3/8" steel plate like its butter I was shocked at the power it has...

What you need to do is shoot what ever you get it till you are comfortable with it... I don't shoot enoufh as I should it takes me 20 rounds to settle down to were I can nail a bulls eye at 75 yards with open sites...

Shoot'N is not as EZ as it sounds...

I like a .17 HMR its more fun than the law allows...

I made a target from a steel disc blade. Made it so it swings when hit. 9mm, 38 special, 357 magnum, and .45 Colt ALL make that target swing. A .223 will pass right through and just barely cause the target to wiggle.

That's a function of sheer velocity combined with what is likely a fully jacketed bullet. Back after WW2 there was a lot of experimenting with "sub-calibers" down in the 17 and 14 cal range. They had a 14 cal round that popped a tiny little bullet of something like 15 grains (standard 22LR is 40 grains) out at somewhere close to 5000 feet per second. It would penetrate 1" armor plate like it was a sheet of paper. Does that mean it was "more powerful" than, say, a 357 or 30-30, to say nothing of a 300 Win mag or something larger? No. It just means that energy concentrated in a tiny area acts differently than when you spread the same energy over a larger area. Ballistics is a funny game where what you see often isn't what you think it is.

Yes. I understand ballistics and all that stuff. I have also experimented with light weight bullets and heavier bullets in .357 magnum. A "standard" 158 grain lead round nose bullet cannot be made to travel much over about 800-850 feet per second and will usually just bounce off of a rubber tire. Whereas a 105 grain bullet can be made to travel somewhere close to 1,400 feet per second and WILL penetrate that same rubber tire.

 

[the tractor vet]

Well if 223 can't get the job done , then i guess it is time for me to scrounge up a M 14 . Never liked the M 16 only used one once and before the night was over it was junk . second night of the TET offensive Vinlong plum washed the barrel out of a fresh out of the crate M16 with somewhere around 700 or so rounds fired .

 

[Bret4207]

(quoted from post at 16:11:05 08/08/18)

(quoted from post at 08:37:12 08/08/18)

(quoted from post at 18:42:07 08/07/18)

(quoted from post at 19:34:47 08/05/18)
A 223 will kill it will go thru 3/8" steel plate like its butter I was shocked at the power it has...

What you need to do is shoot what ever you get it till you are comfortable with it... I don't shoot enoufh as I should it takes me 20 rounds to settle down to were I can nail a bulls eye at 75 yards with open sites...

Shoot'N is not as EZ as it sounds...

I like a .17 HMR its more fun than the law allows...

I made a target from a steel disc blade. Made it so it swings when hit. 9mm, 38 special, 357 magnum, and .45 Colt ALL make that target swing. A .223 will pass right through and just barely cause the target to wiggle.

That's a function of sheer velocity combined with what is likely a fully jacketed bullet. Back after WW2 there was a lot of experimenting with "sub-calibers" down in the 17 and 14 cal range. They had a 14 cal round that popped a tiny little bullet of something like 15 grains (standard 22LR is 40 grains) out at somewhere close to 5000 feet per second. It would penetrate 1" armor plate like it was a sheet of paper. Does that mean it was "more powerful" than, say, a 357 or 30-30, to say nothing of a 300 Win mag or something larger? No. It just means that energy concentrated in a tiny area acts differently than when you spread the same energy over a larger area. Ballistics is a funny game where what you see often isn't what you think it is.

Yes. I understand ballistics and all that stuff. I have also experimented with light weight bullets and heavier bullets in .357 magnum. A "standard" 158 grain lead round nose bullet cannot be made to travel much over about 800-850 feet per second and will usually just bounce off of a rubber tire. Whereas a 105 grain bullet can be made to travel somewhere close to 1,400 feet per second and WILL penetrate that same rubber tire.

A standard 158 gr lead RN can't be made to travel at over 850fps? Oh crap! You mean I've been doing it wrong all these years loading them up over 1200fps out of 357 Mag?!!! Holy smokes! And those cast 160's at 1750 out of a carbine? Heavens to Betsy, I've really been doing wrong! Sorry guy, but I think your version of "I understand ballistics and all that stuff" and mine are 2 different things. Been in the handloading and bullet casting thing since the late 70's. The amount of misinformation out there is staggering.

 

[Bret4207]

(quoted from post at 03:51:11 08/09/18) Well if 223 can't get the job done , then i guess it is time for me to scrounge up a M 14 . Never liked the M 16 only used one once and before the night was over it was junk . second night of the TET offensive Vinlong plum washed the barrel out of a fresh out of the crate M16 with somewhere around 700 or so rounds fired .

Things have changed in the past 50 years. The "M16" and 223 of 1968 and what we have today are 2 different critters. I'm not the worlds biggest AR platform fan, or of the 223/5.56, but they work pretty darn good these days.