Old PTO generator

[DZelmer]

This message is a reply to an archived post by Bus Driver on July 26, 2013 at 10:24:59.
The original subject was Re: Old PTO generator.

Reviving a old thread

I just Picked up One of these It work and came with the manual

Surge Babson Bros. 17970 PTO Alternator. 15KW or 15000 watts. The date on the Manual is 5-67. If any one needs a copy of of the manual i'm going to scan it if i can get the scanner to work again...appears to have died! Any one have any thing good or bad to say about these Old things. I need to get some pictures and post them on here also. This seems to be the only info on this old alternator/generator for this particular model # i can find.


https://ibb.co/Y3Vv9pL
https://ibb.co/8B6V2wv
https://ibb.co/nDGFST9
https://ibb.co/tDg82pd
https://ibb.co/vBh9smv
https://ibb.co/nQ5XRTQ
https://ibb.co/Mk5H2L1
https://ibb.co/kS5R5Gc
https://ibb.co/DbNgTR1
https://ibb.co/MsqS3k0
https://ibb.co/t3DgFJD
https://ibb.co/hXxVd58
https://ibb.co/K61hBfr
https://ibb.co/BVrFsQ8
https://ibb.co/D7Nb28W
https://ibb.co/px5BmbQ

This post was edited by DZelmer on 07/04/2021 at 01:50 pm.

 

[Charles in Aus.]

The power they produce is fairly spikey, good enough for motors and such but not so for appliances .
The solution is to use a power conditioner in conjunction with it , they are expensive but give you power that is kinder to whatever is using it .

 

[Billy Shafer]

From what I know. There was only 4-5 OEMs making PTO units back then.
Onan
Winco
Kohler
Pincor
Katolight
They did build units for others.Pictures will help

 

[Billy Shafer]

Just a quick look. Surge Babson Bros built Dairy equipment. Looks like everything you would need on the dairy. So the PTO unit was built for them. Still looking.

 

[Billy Shafer]

From what I found it is an old. Generac unit has two sections. To make one generator. I would guard that manual well. May be the only one left. I know they did not sell well

 

[Dusty MI]

I know a guy that was a dairy farmer and had/has a PTO generator sitting by his electric meter.

Dusty

 

[DZelmer]

Ya its old and uses a reactor....auto transformer for voltage control Like Brick simple i need to get field voltages with it running and just change it to two modern voltage regulators. maybe just put a switch in to go back to to the old stuff it the now stuff fries from some reason. :lol:

 

[DZelmer]

PM me if the links don't work they are all the pictures of the generator...PTO alternator and the manual scanner is junk so i just took good pictures of the pages.

 

[Billy Shafer]

Send me what you have.E-Mail is open

 

[DZelmer]

I don't see a email option i am on my phone of that makes a difference

 

[rick56]

I'd be interested in obtaining a copy of that manual when you are able to generate one. More than willing to pay for your time and effort. I bought one of those 'twin head PTO generators on an auction a couple of years ago. Just never got around to hooking it up to a tractor to see if and how well it works. Mine has a Generac nameplate on it. 15KW, Model number is 5491-2. Thanks!

Rick

 

[DZelmer]

Look at the links from the first post its all the pages of the manual and pictures of the generator i just checked them they work and are full quality 12 mega pixel.

 

[Zeke Boniface]

DISCLAIMER: The following is for entertainment purposes only. Whatever you do, don't try this at home.

I have had one of these for many years. Used it lots, and it never failed me. Powered the house and the dairy barn, even television and computer. No problem. The Ford 4630 ran it handily, still does. I had to juggle hot water heaters and the like, though,'cause 15K isn't a lot of K.

Mom saw me occupied with milking and generating one winter day and thought, Poor Zeke, he's having a hard time, and it's so cold out. I think I'll bake him some brownies!

Yes, we had an electric oven. And she knew better of course. She was just being a good mom.

The brownies really hit the spot. Mom has been gone for many years, and it is still one of my fondest memories of her.

Zeke B.

 

[DZelmer]

Update

Got a pto shaft put together for the tractor i wanted to run it on. Ford TW20 100 pto hp i think....Nope 130 hp just looked. With the 1000 rpm shaft in it and a 1000 to 540 spline adapter 63 hz on my meter at 1100 rpm!

On to the generator at light loads like 2kw or less almost nothing for a 15kw gen. voltage regulation it not so good swings from 115 to 140 when loads kick on and off even if its only a 750 watt portable heater.... over 2kw smooths out holds 125 volts nice and smooth... a nice modern voltage reg would more than likely make this generator cleaner than most stand alone gen sets. all dependent on the governor on the tractor. I only had enough stuff laying around lights and heaters to load it to 3kw will play with my load bank and see what it can really do.
I picked up a 1MW 480 volt 3phase load bank years ago and use it more than i though it would. With 130 pto hp i don't think the tw-20 will have any problem pulling 15kw at 1100 rpm! Now to get some running voltages and see what flavor voltage regulators i can use on this old thing! :twisted:

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Your power may be more stable if you can run it on a 540 PTO and run the tractor at rated PTO speed. The governor will be able to react more quickly at higher RPMs.

We never had much luck running the generator on 1000 PTO with an adapter. Even with a 160HP tractor. The power would fluctuate wildly with small changes in load.

 

[Determined]

(quoted from post at 23:57:27 07/05/21)
Update

Got a pto shaft put together for the tractor i wanted to run it on. Ford TW20 100 pto hp i think....Nope 130 hp just looked. With the 1000 rpm shaft in it and a 1000 to 540 spline adapter 63 hz on my meter at 1100 rpm!

On to the generator at light loads like 2kw or less almost nothing for a 15kw gen. voltage regulation it not so good swings from 115 to 140 when loads kick on and off even if its only a 750 watt portable heater.... over 2kw smooths out holds 125 volts nice and smooth... a nice modern voltage reg would more than likely make this generator cleaner than most stand alone gen sets. all dependent on the governor on the tractor. I only had enough stuff laying around lights and heaters to load it to 3kw will play with my load bank and see what it can really do.
I picked up a 1MW 480 volt 3phase load bank years ago and use it more than i though it would. With 130 pto hp i don't think the tw-20 will have any problem pulling 15kw at 1100 rpm! Now to get some running voltages and see what flavor voltage regulators i can use on this old thing! :twisted:

You may want to consider installing a more responsive engine governing system if you want to further smooth out the output.

I used to work on a lot of Hobart aircraft ground power units.

These were fitted with a Bosch electronic governor that controlled an electric actuator.

Very responsive when set up right with fine adjustments for droop and gain, as long as there was no more than minimal slop in the linkage it would hold a Detroit steady between 399 and 401 on a 400 cycle generator regardless of the load.

 

[DZelmer]

(quoted from post at 05:08:50 07/08/21)

(quoted from post at 23:57:27 07/05/21)
Update

Got a pto shaft put together for the tractor i wanted to run it on. Ford TW20 100 pto hp i think....Nope 130 hp just looked. With the 1000 rpm shaft in it and a 1000 to 540 spline adapter 63 hz on my meter at 1100 rpm!

On to the generator at light loads like 2kw or less almost nothing for a 15kw gen. voltage regulation it not so good swings from 115 to 140 when loads kick on and off even if its only a 750 watt portable heater.... over 2kw smooths out holds 125 volts nice and smooth... a nice modern voltage reg would more than likely make this generator cleaner than most stand alone gen sets. all dependent on the governor on the tractor. I only had enough stuff laying around lights and heaters to load it to 3kw will play with my load bank and see what it can really do.
I picked up a 1MW 480 volt 3phase load bank years ago and use it more than i though it would. With 130 pto hp i don't think the tw-20 will have any problem pulling 15kw at 1100 rpm! Now to get some running voltages and see what flavor voltage regulators i can use on this old thing! :twisted:

You may want to consider installing a more responsive engine governing system if you want to further smooth out the output.

I used to work on a lot of Hobart aircraft ground power units.

These were fitted with a Bosch electronic governor that controlled an electric actuator.

Very responsive when set up right with fine adjustments for droop and gain, as long as there was no more than minimal slop in the linkage it would hold a Detroit steady between 399 and 401 on a 400 cycle generator regardless of the load.

Nice i think i have one of those kicking around that came off a old chevy m111 had a 12kw generator on a pto and a utility box it got scrapped and i got the generator and other misc electronics off it. Think i was missing the actuator and maybe the rpm pickup. I completely forgot about that! will be interesting getting the actuator on there might have to make it a quick disconnect linkage for the normal throttle and the actuator 8) Or find the generator governor for the inline pump on... :?

 

[Determined]

(quoted from post at 04:52:26 07/11/21)

(quoted from post at 05:08:50 07/08/21)

(quoted from post at 23:57:27 07/05/21)
Update

Got a pto shaft put together for the tractor i wanted to run it on. Ford TW20 100 pto hp i think....Nope 130 hp just looked. With the 1000 rpm shaft in it and a 1000 to 540 spline adapter 63 hz on my meter at 1100 rpm!

On to the generator at light loads like 2kw or less almost nothing for a 15kw gen. voltage regulation it not so good swings from 115 to 140 when loads kick on and off even if its only a 750 watt portable heater.... over 2kw smooths out holds 125 volts nice and smooth... a nice modern voltage reg would more than likely make this generator cleaner than most stand alone gen sets. all dependent on the governor on the tractor. I only had enough stuff laying around lights and heaters to load it to 3kw will play with my load bank and see what it can really do.
I picked up a 1MW 480 volt 3phase load bank years ago and use it more than i though it would. With 130 pto hp i don't think the tw-20 will have any problem pulling 15kw at 1100 rpm! Now to get some running voltages and see what flavor voltage regulators i can use on this old thing! :twisted:

You may want to consider installing a more responsive engine governing system if you want to further smooth out the output.

I used to work on a lot of Hobart aircraft ground power units.

These were fitted with a Bosch electronic governor that controlled an electric actuator.

Very responsive when set up right with fine adjustments for droop and gain, as long as there was no more than minimal slop in the linkage it would hold a Detroit steady between 399 and 401 on a 400 cycle generator regardless of the load.

Nice i think i have one of those kicking around that came off a old chevy m111 had a 12kw generator on a pto and a utility box it got scrapped and i got the generator and other misc electronics off it. Think i was missing the actuator and maybe the rpm pickup. I completely forgot about that! will be interesting getting the actuator on there might have to make it a quick disconnect linkage for the normal throttle and the actuator 8) Or find the generator governor for the inline pump on... :?

Before you start tearing into the project I got to thinking about it further and the idea of using an electronic governor might be more trouble than it is worth assuming you are going to still use the tractor as a tractor.

The electronic governor would work well with an automotive style injector pump as the internal governor would be of a design that only controls minimum maximum RPM.
The accelerator pedal input could then be replaced or overridden with the electric actuator.

In your case your injection pump was designed for a tractor so the internal governor will be a variable speed design that works to hold the RPM at whatever setting the operator chooses.

Putting an electronic governor on this style of pump without doing modifications to the internal governor is likely to create a situation where the two governors will be having a fit fighting each other for control.

A better solution may be to fine tune your existing governor though it's going to be difficult to find the sweet spot.
Setting it to be responsive enough to give you fine RPM control for the generator will be one end of the spectrum while setting it to function as it should on a tractor without it going into a RPM hunting fit will be the other end of the spectrum.

Possibly someone like Dieseltech on here would be best to advise you what or how to adjust to best suit your requirements.

 

[rick56]

Thanks, I was able to print those pages. Appears to be the same as my generac PTO unit. Glad to see oil type and qty listed as I plan to change the gearbox oil. Thanks again!

Rick