Working allis 200

[Whistlin200]

my big tractor is a allis 200its a pretty good survivor and it doesn’t pop out of gear but I’ve heard a lot of horror stories about them and the 190s I’m only. Pulling a 14 Oliver disk and 4bt ih 730 and a ih 45 on 70 acres of decent ground should i be worried about it at all or is there anything i can do to lower the risk if it popping out of gear

 

[Fritz Maurer]

If its jumping out of third gear, the splined thrust washer between 2nd and 3rd has failed. If allowed to go too long it will ruin the thrust surfaces on the gears as well, and you can't get the gear stack tight enough even with the new washer.

Remove the trans cover and see if 2 and 3 gears will wiggle with your fingers. If they are loose, the trans will have to come out.

Of course, do preliminary checks like make sure your linkage is tight, and that the shifter lever is not contacting the dashboard or anything else before the gears are firmly engaged. Make sure, when you have the cover off, that the detent spring for that rail/fork assembly is not broken.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Ok so yours ISN'T popping out of gear..... sorry , got the picture now.

You CAN help preserve it by making sure the shifter is putting it fully into gear without interference from any other part of the tractor. Take all the tin off the floor so you can see what's going on.

Another possibility is high dollar oil in the trans . Curious about the hours. If high hour and hadn't failed yet, you might luck out, especially if you aren't working at 90% rated hp.

 

[Whistlin200]

Ok so yours ISN'T popping out of gear..... sorry , got the picture now.

You CAN help preserve it by making sure the shifter is putting it fully into gear without interference from any other part of the tractor. Take all the tin off the floor so you can see what's going on.

Another possibility is high dollar oil in the trans . Curious about the hours. If high hour and hadn't failed yet, you might luck out, especially if you aren't working at 90% rated hp.

It’s got like 5600 hours its got a bit of blow by but it was worked hard i bought it from the original owner he took care of his stuff but he worked it pretty hard he pulled a 5-16s with it and a light 20 foot disk but it does have 34s on the back so it might have something to do with it but the rear end doesn’t howl like my d15 does in certain gears

 

[DanielW]

There were fixes that can be done to stop it jumping out of gear if it does, and some of them can be done pre-emptively if you want to be safe. There were a few factors that contributed to gear popping on Allis's:

- The shift forks didn't have much meat on them, and were prone to both bend slightly and wear down over time. Especially if it saw a lot of hard forcing/grinding into gear. Not helped by the fact that on the earlier 190 (non XT) and smaller units they had such long sticks that you could get a lot of leverage on. Allis came out with beefier 3rd-4th shift forks later on that had a little more meat in the right spots to reduce wear and be harder to bend. Any shift fork you buy these days for one will be the newer style. They're readily available - both from Agco and aftermarket sources (DJS Allis is a good one, this site also offers them). And pretty easy to install. It's the same fork for the 180 through 200.

- The stock detent locations barely allowed full tooth face contact when new. And as soon as they started to wear, when linkages started to get a little sloppy, when shift forks and collars started to bend/wear, and when the gear stack got a little loose, they wouldn't engage for full face contact. This caused the gears to want to pop out when being pushed by a load/running downhill. Allis issued a service bulletin and offered 'deep shift' rails to get a little more stroke and tooth engagement. The Allis service bulletin and 'deep shift' rail they offered only had something like 60-thou additional stroke. Most folks fixing them these days go further than that: 0.100" or so is more common, to get nice deep engagement. The deep shift rails aren't available from Allis anymore, so folks these days just turn the original shift rail to get a new face and die-grind a new detent location. You want to make sure you have enough stroke before you assume you can go 0.100" or so. Usually you do, but it's worth checking.

- Allis issued a service bulletin for a stronger detent spring to better hold the gears new detent location. The specific spring Allis offered isn't available anymore, but it's pretty easy to find & source a slightly stiffer spring. Just make sure you get a good quality one that will hold its stiffness over time. "Dr. Allis" is an Allis expert who floats around here sometimes and more on the 'Unofficial Allis Chalmers Forum' website, and one of his fixes is to put a second smaller spring inside the original.

Other fixes were/are available (new gears, new shims on the shafts & countershafts for better engagement, etc.), but the above fixes will solve 90% of Allis gear jumping issues. As long as the gears get full face contact, they should last forever. The check Fritz mentions above is good advice. If the gear stack is loose, it really should be shimmed accordingly and the thrust washers checked. You'll also note in the service bulletin below that Allis offered a thicker snap ring to tighten up the gear stack. But those are a bigger, tractor-splitting and tranny tear-down jobs. If your 200 isn't jumping yet, you're probably fine. Just don't force/grind gears. If you want to play it safe, it's pretty easy to change the shift fork for a newer/beefier one. And while you're in there, you might as well grind a deeper detent location and put a stronger spring in. Just be careful when removing the shift rail, as the spring-loaded detent ball will go flying across the shop if you're not careful and ready for it. All fairly cheap & easy to do without splitting the tractor. Only the top cover has to come off. Just make sure you have the shifter in the correct gear when taking the cover off (I can't remember which gear it has to be in, but it has to be in a specific gear to come off & on). You always hear that its a problem with 3rd/4th gear, and thus the 3rd/4th shift fork & rail are the ones that are typically changed & modified. This is because those are the most common gears to use for almost all field work. It's not unheard of for other gears to have this issue, but very uncommon.

Below are some pics from one of the Allis service bulletins for reference. I wouldn't get too fussed about reading them and following them precisely, however: The fixes mentioned above are often all that's required.

 

[Whistlin200]

There were fixes that can be done to stop it jumping out of gear if it does, and some of them can be done pre-emptively if you want to be safe. There were a few factors that contributed to gear popping on Allis's:

- The shift forks didn't have much meat on them, and were prone to both bend slightly and wear down over time. Especially if it saw a lot of hard forcing/grinding into gear. Not helped by the fact that on the earlier 190 (non XT) and smaller units they had such long sticks that you could get a lot of leverage on. Allis came out with beefier 3rd-4th shift forks later on that had a little more meat in the right spots to reduce wear and be harder to bend. Any shift fork you buy these days for one will be the newer style. They're readily available - both from Agco and aftermarket sources (DJS Allis is a good one, this site also offers them). And pretty easy to install. It's the same fork for the 180 through 200.

- The stock detent locations barely allowed full tooth face contact when new. And as soon as they started to wear, when linkages started to get a little sloppy, when shift forks and collars started to bend/wear, and when the gear stack got a little loose, they wouldn't engage for full face contact. This caused the gears to want to pop out when being pushed by a load/running downhill. Allis issued a service bulletin and offered 'deep shift' rails to get a little more stroke and tooth engagement. The Allis service bulletin and 'deep shift' rail they offered only had something like 60-thou additional stroke. Most folks fixing them these days go further than that: 0.100" or so is more common, to get nice deep engagement. The deep shift rails aren't available from Allis anymore, so folks these days just turn the original shift rail to get a new face and die-grind a new detent location. You want to make sure you have enough stroke before you assume you can go 0.100" or so. Usually you do, but it's worth checking.

- Allis issued a service bulletin for a stronger detent spring to better hold the gears new detent location. The specific spring Allis offered isn't available anymore, but it's pretty easy to find & source a slightly stiffer spring. Just make sure you get a good quality one that will hold its stiffness over time. "Dr. Allis" is an Allis expert who floats around here sometimes and more on the 'Unofficial Allis Chalmers Forum' website, and one of his fixes is to put a second smaller spring inside the original.

Other fixes were/are available (new gears, new shims on the shafts & countershafts for better engagement, etc.), but the above fixes will solve 90% of Allis gear jumping issues. As long as the gears get full face contact, they should last forever. The check Fritz mentions above is good advice. If the gear stack is loose, it really should be shimmed accordingly and the thrust washers checked. You'll also note in the service bulletin below that Allis offered a thicker snap ring to tighten up the gear stack. But those are a bigger, tractor-splitting and tranny tear-down jobs. If your 200 isn't jumping yet, you're probably fine. Just don't force/grind gears. If you want to play it safe, it's pretty easy to change the shift fork for a newer/beefier one. And while you're in there, you might as well grind a deeper detent location and put a stronger spring in. Just be careful when removing the shift rail, as the spring-loaded detent ball will go flying across the shop if you're not careful and ready for it. All fairly cheap & easy to do without splitting the tractor. Only the top cover has to come off. Just make sure you have the shifter in the correct gear when taking the cover off (I can't remember which gear it has to be in, but it has to be in a specific gear to come off & on). You always hear that its a problem with 3rd/4th gear, and thus the 3rd/4th shift fork & rail are the ones that are typically changed & modified. This is because those are the most common gears to use for almost all field work. It's not unheard of for other gears to have this issue, but very uncommon.

Below are some pics from one of the Allis service bulletins for reference. I wouldn't get too fussed about reading them and following them precisely, however: The fixes mentioned above are often all that's required.

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Thanks Danielw I believe its a 74 model and the original owner always brought his equipment to the dealership to be serviced so the modifications may have already been made by the dealer but ill keep you guys up dated if I have any trouble with it this spring