electric motor

[caterpillar guy]

Got an old wagner electric motor 1.5 HP single phase 110/220 1750 listed on the tag. Only saw one wire banded with a number 1 on it. The others might have been under the tape. I need to know how to tell which wires need to go to what to switch it up to 220. It will not pull itself off the starter on 110 running an air pump on the air compressor it came on. There is only 2 wires coming from the pressure switch and 3or 4 wires coming out of the motor case. No label visible with a wiring code for the switch. Looks like there might have been one in the past but now is just a slight amount of coloring like around the edge maybe or it has been painted over and came off with the chipping of the paint. SO is there a way to check with an OHM meter or other method to check the wires for an internal difference in connection. I didn't want to pull the motor apart for this. All wires seemed to be the same color coming out of the case there was one white wire from the pressure switch. I suppose the other was black. All other wires in the armoured cable were cut off from the pressure switch. I'm guessing I need the wires to come to the motor first then running a pair to the pressure switch would be from the motor to pressure switch. These wires all have the old cloth type insulation and is not in such good shape. No I'm not going to junk a good motor over some insulation.

 

[buickanddeere]

(quoted from post at 22:11:15 07/13/23) Got an old wagner electric motor 1.5 HP single phase 110/220 1750 listed on the tag. Only saw one wire banded with a number 1 on it. The others might have been under the tape. I need to know how to tell which wires need to go to what to switch it up to 220. It will not pull itself off the starter on 110 running an air pump on the air compressor it came on. There is only 2 wires coming from the pressure switch and 3or 4 wires coming out of the motor case. No label visible with a wiring code for the switch. Looks like there might have been one in the past but now is just a slight amount of coloring like around the edge maybe or it has been painted over and came off with the chipping of the paint. SO is there a way to check with an OHM meter or other method to check the wires for an internal difference in connection. I didn't want to pull the motor apart for this. All wires seemed to be the same color coming out of the case there was one white wire from the pressure switch. I suppose the other was black. All other wires in the armoured cable were cut off from the pressure switch. I'm guessing I need the wires to come to the motor first then running a pair to the pressure switch would be from the motor to pressure switch. These wires all have the old cloth type insulation and is not in such good shape. No I'm not going to junk a good motor over some insulation.

Sounds like it is already wired for 240 when it won t accelerate and carry the load .

 

[Geo-TH,In]

Would you connect it to 240 vac and use an
amprobe to see if it exceeds the FLA or see if it
lets some smoke out?

 

[caterpillar guy]

Maybe I was not real clear on this. If I take the belt off the pump it will come up to speed and kick off from the start switch /winding or whatever it is using. There is no capacitor for starting or running and no provision for one unless it is internal. It will not come up to speed and kick off from the start switch or whatever with the belt on running the pump. With only 2 wires to the pressure switch and no place for a third I'm guessing the power needs to come to the motor and then run the 2 wires over to the pressure switch to kick motor on and off with it. It I suppose could already be wired for 220/240 seems from my past experience that it would have more than just 2 wires for the higher voltage setting on the motor. I didn't want to let the smoke out and have to replace the motor.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

If I take the belt off the pump it will come up to speed and kick off from the start switch.

If the start switch kick off that indicates it is coming up to full speed.
Time to get your amprobe out and measure the starting current and run current with no load. Check out the current on the motor tag. LRA and FLA.
Then measure the current under load. That should tell you if you are overloading the motor.


What is the rpms the motor?

What is the rpms of the motor you are replacing?

Usually A 1.5 hp motor that runs 1750 rpms has twice the torque of a motor that runs 3500.

Most motors I've seen used on air compressors have a start capacitor. Some have a start and run capacitor..

A start capacitor motor has more starting torque.

The only thing I can think of is to use the smallest pulley you can find on the motor.
Use only one belt and don't tighten it too much. Let it slip a little a little on start to see if it works.

You may not be using the right kind of motor.

Post a pic of the motor.

 

[miangus]

It is typical in a 220-volt motor on a compressor to run both 120-volt legs trough the pressure switch. That would make me think it was wired to run at 120 volts. However, switching both 120-volt legs on a 220-volt system is not required to make it work, switching just one of the 120-volt legs works just fine. Are you attempting to run it on 220 vols or 120 volts. It almost sounds like you have low voltage at the motor. The motor may have lost a winding connection internally.

 

[buickanddeere]

(quoted from post at 05:59:19 07/14/23) Maybe I was not real clear on this. If I take the belt off the pump it will come up to speed and kick off from the start switch /winding or whatever it is using. There is no capacitor for starting or running and no provision for one unless it is internal. It will not come up to speed and kick off from the start switch or whatever with the belt on running the pump. With only 2 wires to the pressure switch and no place for a third I'm guessing the power needs to come to the motor and then run the 2 wires over to the pressure switch to kick motor on and off with it. It I suppose could already be wired for 220/240 seems from my past experience that it would have more than just 2 wires for the higher voltage setting on the motor. I didn't want to let the smoke out and have to replace the motor.

RPM depends on the frequency not the voltage

 

[kencombs]

With no start capacitor and as old as a Wagner must be, you may well have a Repulsion/Induction motor. If so there is no centrifugal switch but rather a set of brushes that raise off the armature at running speed.

Maybe with a pic or a model number we can find the diagram. There are several on the web but without being sure of the type it would be a crap shoot.

 

[Janicholson]

New idea. If the motor will run with no load, it could be that what is not working is the start system. Jim

 

[ss55]

Is the soft start or cold start valve properly relieving pressure until the pump and motor get up to speed?

 

[Geo-TH,In]

I have an air compressor with a 1.5 hp Repulsion/Induction motor. That is a rare motor and about my age, 74. I've only seen 2 Repulsion/Induction motors in my lifetime.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 15:36:06 07/14/23) I have an air compressor with a 1.5 hp Repulsion/Induction motor. That is a rare motor and about my age, 74. I've only seen 2 Repulsion/Induction motors in my lifetime.

ow you have seen 3. 1920's repulsion start/induction run from granddads Texaco station. Still working, too.

 

[kencombs]

I have one also, on an old Delta Unisaw. Only 1hp but does everything I need to do. I actually bought a 3hp, 3ph for it years ago as I just knew the little one couldn't do what I needed. Wrong, lots of torque. Must be way underrated, by today's standards.

It was made in the late 40s, maybe 50-51 and has been in use ever since. Those old 'bullet' motors are solid performers.

 

[caterpillar guy]

The motor plate says it is a Wagner Electric Corporation Alternating current motor Type KA Frame 204 Model 740B233K586 1.5 HP 1750 RPM 1 PH 60 cycles110 volts 12.8 AMP. 220 volts 6.4 Amp. Cont. Rating 40 degrees centigrade NO. C 2 P This is what is on the motor plate. As best I can read. I have not checked for the unloader to be dumping pressure before it starts. Here are a couple pictures of the motor tag and the red devilbiss is the compressor it is on. Dis regaurd the Ingersoll tag.

 

[caterpillar guy]

I'll try this again

 

[kencombs]

Found a few references to a 204 frame type KA on the web. It is a repulsion/induction motor. First place I'd check would be the brushes, springs and centrifugal mechanism.

According to that label, if I read it correctly, it is a 110(120) only.

But before tearing into it, has it ever been used on that compressor successfully or is it a new pairing? Maybe pulleys are the answer if not.

If you have the specs on the pump it should specify HP and pulley needs.

 

[caterpillar guy]

Ken I was looking around and on smokstak they had a discussion on those repulsion motors and it sounded like they were pretty particular on the whole starting brushes commutator part and it being exactly back in the right spot as if turned wrong it would reverse the motor. That was how they did that with them. They also in that discussion talked about a necklace part of copper or brass pieces that have a wire holding it together and was a delicate deal. So I didn't want to disturb that if I didn't have to. This is about all I know about it so far.

 

[buickanddeere]

Place an ammeter on it and connect to 240V . The motor will
Not instantly erupt in a ball of flames and molten metal if 240 is applied to 120V windings.

 

[caterpillar guy]

It says right on the motor plate that it is a 110 /220 motor with the 12.8/ 6.4 ampere load. I guess after I put the end cap back on after cleaning up the brush holder and such will see what it acts like. Might just put it on 220 and see if when connected at the pressure switch if it runs better or not. 110 would work and have both where it will set when in position. Just figured 220 would help with the starting. Not sure if the unloader is at the top of the pipe going down to the tank or if it is the deal with a line on the back end of the crank on the compressor. It is another Devilbiss 330 like the one from last week. Just is piped differently from compressor to tank. This motor was on the unit when we got it. So no idea beyond dirt marks on motor porch when it was put on probably been there for many years by the looks of the dirt around the mounts.

 

[tomturkey]

on the end cap of the motor there are poles with different numbers. I have a 110/220 motor on a compressor I made up from different salvage. I can look in the morning and tell you the pole number and where the wire goes if you like...let me know...maybe you've already got it figured out. gobble