Ford 3000 - Electrical Problems or Stuck Engine?

[kaemonawa]

I need some wisdom from the folks here on a fixer-upper.

I've inherited a Ford 3000 (gas) from my wife's grandfather, that has been sitting in a shed for about 6 years. I was told it was running a bit rough, so gramps fiddled with it but never finished fixing it. It DID run at the time he put it up. The last thing he did on it was burn out the starter, battery, and starter solenoid by shorting the battery when he had a confused spell, and it has sat ever since.

I have replaced the battery, starter, and solenoid, along with both battery cables, the starter cable, and the key switch for good measure. When the key is inserted, the dash lights turn on. When the key is moved to the crank position, the solenoid clanks on, and there is a little whining sound from the starter - like the bendix is spinning out, but weakly. The engine doesn't turn over, and it doesn't feel like the starter is engaging, but I'm not experienced enough with tractors to tell if it is.

Battery is 750CCA, same as it had before
Battery cables are new 2 AWG
Starter cable is 4 AWG

All the cables get a little warm after trying to crank a few times, but not too hot to touch. Ideas I have are that the starter cable may need to be sized up, or the engine itself is stuck from sitting (The tractor has been put up so no rain or anything). I figured I'd ask for help before I spend any more money on the old girl.

Any ideas/comments? Thank you in advance

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

I need some wisdom from the folks here on a fixer-upper.

I've inherited a Ford 3000 (gas) from my wife's grandfather, that has been sitting in a shed for about 6 years. I was told it was running a bit rough, so gramps fiddled with it but never finished fixing it. It DID run at the time he put it up. The last thing he did on it was burn out the starter, battery, and starter solenoid by shorting the battery when he had a confused spell, and it has sat ever since.

I have replaced the battery, starter, and solenoid, along with both battery cables, the starter cable, and the key switch for good measure. When the key is inserted, the dash lights turn on. When the key is moved to the crank position, the solenoid clanks on, and there is a little whining sound from the starter - like the bendix is spinning out, but weakly. The engine doesn't turn over, and it doesn't feel like the starter is engaging, but I'm not experienced enough with tractors to tell if it is.

Battery is 750CCA, same as it had before
Battery cables are new 2 AWG
Starter cable is 4 AWG

All the cables get a little warm after trying to crank a few times, but not too hot to touch. Ideas I have are that the starter cable may need to be sized up, or the engine itself is stuck from sitting (The tractor has been put up so no rain or anything). I figured I'd ask for help before I spend any more money on the old girl.

Any ideas/comments? Thank you in advance

Are you using the OEM 12V NEG/GRN setup with the GEN & VR or a switcheroo to an ALT? Do you have a belt tensioner on the GEN or ALT? cannot charge the battery without one. At start up, KEY ON, IGNITION IDIOT DASH LAMP should ignite. Did you take the battery into a shop and have it verified if good or bad under load on their test machine? Most shops don't charge for this - pun intended. The usual culprit when the Starter Motor Relay (Solenoid) just clicks at start up is a weak or dead battery. 1st thing to always check. Batteries can be dead out the door. Get a good brand (INTERSTATE DEKA DURACELL) and leave the tsc & wally world bargains for your lawnmower. Buying and replacing parts willy-nilly with new without proper testing if old is good or bad is not logical root cause problem solving. You are guessing - Newbie/Rookie mistake #1. Get an I&T F0-31 Service Manual now and read B4 you do anything else. Start there and go slow.


Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Jim.ME]

I need some wisdom from the folks here on a fixer-upper.

I've inherited a Ford 3000 (gas) from my wife's grandfather, that has been sitting in a shed for about 6 years. I was told it was running a bit rough, so gramps fiddled with it but never finished fixing it. It DID run at the time he put it up. The last thing he did on it was burn out the starter, battery, and starter solenoid by shorting the battery when he had a confused spell, and it has sat ever since.

I have replaced the battery, starter, and solenoid, along with both battery cables, the starter cable, and the key switch for good measure. When the key is inserted, the dash lights turn on. When the key is moved to the crank position, the solenoid clanks on, and there is a little whining sound from the starter - like the bendix is spinning out, but weakly. The engine doesn't turn over, and it doesn't feel like the starter is engaging, but I'm not experienced enough with tractors to tell if it is.

Battery is 750CCA, same as it had before
Battery cables are new 2 AWG
Starter cable is 4 AWG

All the cables get a little warm after trying to crank a few times, but not too hot to touch. Ideas I have are that the starter cable may need to be sized up, or the engine itself is stuck from sitting (The tractor has been put up so no rain or anything). I figured I'd ask for help before I spend any more money on the old girl.

Any ideas/comments? Thank you in advance

While just throwing on new parts may not be the best way to start but what is done is done. You posted you have replaced battery, solenoid, starter, cables and key switch. You posted you hear the solenoid click and a whirring noise. Now answer the first question that should have been answered before installing all those parts. Is the engine stuck from setting? Remove the starter and use a pry bar or large screwdriver on the ring gear to see if the engine can be turned a full 360 degrees. I don't see going further with the electrical part, until that is known.

Edited punctuation.

 

[Keith Williams]

I need some wisdom from the folks here on a fixer-upper.

I've inherited a Ford 3000 (gas) from my wife's grandfather, that has been sitting in a shed for about 6 years. I was told it was running a bit rough, so gramps fiddled with it but never finished fixing it. It DID run at the time he put it up. The last thing he did on it was burn out the starter, battery, and starter solenoid by shorting the battery when he had a confused spell, and it has sat ever since.

I have replaced the battery, starter, and solenoid, along with both battery cables, the starter cable, and the key switch for good measure. When the key is inserted, the dash lights turn on. When the key is moved to the crank position, the solenoid clanks on, and there is a little whining sound from the starter - like the bendix is spinning out, but weakly. The engine doesn't turn over, and it doesn't feel like the starter is engaging, but I'm not experienced enough with tractors to tell if it is.

Battery is 750CCA, same as it had before
Battery cables are new 2 AWG
Starter cable is 4 AWG

All the cables get a little warm after trying to crank a few times, but not too hot to touch. Ideas I have are that the starter cable may need to be sized up, or the engine itself is stuck from sitting (The tractor has been put up so no rain or anything). I figured I'd ask for help before I spend any more money on the old girl.

Any ideas/comments? Thank you in advance

Take the plugs out to make it easy to turn over, before you pry too hard.

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

The puzzle to me it why the dash light come on when you put the key in. I'd first verify that you have it wired correctly.

 

[kaemonawa]

Thanks for the advice folks! I'm definitely a rookie with this.

To answer some questions:

• I misspoke about the key and dash lights, I meant when you put the key in and turn to the first position, the dash lights turn on as expected
• OEM generator setup, not sure about the belt tensioner. I'll check, but the generator setup was working before the tractor was parked
• Old battery was tested at local auto store and was a dead cell
• Old starter and solenoid were shot. Checked on the bench and the solenoid was reading continuity between the two poles while it was supposed to be off. Starter wouldn't spin at all.
• Old cables were all heavily corroded

I'll get that service manual! Would be good to know the procedures, especially to fix all the wiring for lights on this thing. All the lights except the dash have been cut at some point.

Going to try turning it over today after removing the sparks as suggested, I'll post an update once I see what it does.

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

Thanks for the advice folks! I'm definitely a rookie with this.

To answer some questions:

• I misspoke about the key and dash lights, I meant when you put the key in and turn to the first position, the dash lights turn on as expected
• OEM generator setup, not sure about the belt tensioner. I'll check, but the generator setup was working before the tractor was parked
• Old battery was tested at local auto store and was a dead cell
• Old starter and solenoid were shot. Checked on the bench and the solenoid was reading continuity between the two poles while it was supposed to be off. Starter wouldn't spin at all.
• Old cables were all heavily corroded

I'll get that service manual! Would be good to know the procedures, especially to fix all the wiring for lights on this thing. All the lights except the dash have been cut at some point.

Going to try turning it over today after removing the sparks as suggested, I'll post an update once I see what it does.

The dash should light up with the headlights, not key on.

 

[kaemonawa]

The backlights don't turn on, I don't even think the headlight switch is wired to anything anymore. But the two red lamps, bottom left and bottom right, come on when the key is in first position

 

[Jim.ME]

The backlights don't turn on, I don't even think the headlight switch is wired to anything anymore. But the two red lamps, bottom left and bottom right, come on when the key is in first position

The two red lamps in the dash should be indicator lights. One is charging indicator, and the other is engine oil pressure, if memory serves me right.

Remember people can't see what you are looking at, when possible, using the proper names for things help.

 

[sotxbill]

Did... you get the correct starter for that tractor... And if it keeps spinning , there is a possibility the teeth on the fly wheel are gone or damaged at the one point on the flywheel. ( this is common as the engine mostly stops in the same place) IF.. the belt is tight, you can use the fan blades to turn the engine a bit to a slightly different position and then re try.. the starter to see if it engages. If it does not engage, you probably have a bad or wrong starter.

 

[Eman85]

Let's stop and think for a minute. First try turning the motor by hand, might have to remove the spark plugs which is a good idea just to see what they look like. This will tell you if the motor is seized or not. Do this first and leave the plugs out, if the engine is free might want to squirt a little oil in the cylinders just to show them you care.
You say the new starter sounds like it's spinning when you turn the key. If so there's a good chance you bought a new bad part, but that's how the game goes when you start replacing parts.
Save that old starter and the key switch. Starter if original is worth rebuilding and would be better than anything money can buy. Key switch might be a much better quality than what you put on.

 

[ErnieD]

Our 3000 gas lost several teeth on the flywheel ring gear, engines in general are prone to stop in the same place. Pull the starter and visually inspect if there are missing ring gear teeth. Starter cables should not get warm unless starter is locked. As others have suggested, pull the plugs and put a socket on the front crankshaft bolt and see if the engine turns.

 

[kaemonawa]

I pulled the starter and inspected the ring gear. No broken teeth that I could see. I pulled the spark plugs and tried to turn the motor using a socket on the front crankshaft bolt. It would not budge.

Sprayed some penetrating oil into the cylinders and I'm letting it sit and soak. Would it be worth it to try and pull start it with another vehicle in a few days? It didn't have any mechanical issues before it was put up, to my knowledge, so I don't think the engine is seized from some serious internal issue. I think it's just stuck from sitting too long (6+ years)

 

[Jim.ME]

I pulled the starter and inspected the ring gear. No broken teeth that I could see. I pulled the spark plugs and tried to turn the motor using a socket on the front crankshaft bolt. It would not budge.

Sprayed some penetrating oil into the cylinders and I'm letting it sit and soak. Would it be worth it to try and pull start it with another vehicle in a few days? It didn't have any mechanical issues before it was put up, to my knowledge, so I don't think the engine is seized from some serious internal issue. I think it's just stuck from sitting too long (6+ years)

I would stay with trying some methods less violent than towing it. Prying on the ring gear with it in neutral or jack one rear wheel off the ground and rock the wheel back and forth with the transmission in high gear. Either way will be less violent and likely to damage something than pulling it and engaging the clutch in gear to get it to move freely. The problem in trying to use the crank bolt is if it is stuck hard and you try rocking it the bolt may well loosen before the engine turns.

 

[kaemonawa]

I would stay with trying some methods less violent than towing it. Prying on the ring gear with it in neutral or jack one rear wheel off the ground and rock the wheel back and forth with the transmission in high gear. Either way will be less violent and likely to damage something than pulling it and engaging the clutch in gear to get it to move freely. The problem in trying to use the crank bolt is if it is stuck hard and you try rocking it the bolt may well loosen before the engine turns.

I'll try one of these methods next then, before doing anything more drastic. Thanks everyone for the advice thus far! It'll be nice to see this tractor run again, it's been in my wife's family since it came off the assembly line.

 

[Eman85]

I pulled the starter and inspected the ring gear. No broken teeth that I could see. I pulled the spark plugs and tried to turn the motor using a socket on the front crankshaft bolt. It would not budge.

Sprayed some penetrating oil into the cylinders and I'm letting it sit and soak. Would it be worth it to try and pull start it with another vehicle in a few days? It didn't have any mechanical issues before it was put up, to my knowledge, so I don't think the engine is seized from some serious internal issue. I think it's just stuck from sitting too long (6+ years)

I don't know how much some penetrating oil is, I would pour a cup of transmission fluid or something similar in each cylinder and let it sit. 6+ years of sitting might just be corrosion in the cylinders and let it soak for a while. Any chance you have a camera to drop in the spark plug hole? They make them that you can hook to your phone. Don't try pulling it, things break! Try easily moving the engine back and forth a little at a time. Once you get it to move do that until it rotates over. If you put the starter back on leave the spark plugs out if you spin the motor with the starter to clear the cylinders.

 

[sotxbill]

I pulled the starter and inspected the ring gear. No broken teeth that I could see. I pulled the spark plugs and tried to turn the motor using a socket on the front crankshaft bolt. It would not budge.

Sprayed some penetrating oil into the cylinders and I'm letting it sit and soak. Would it be worth it to try and pull start it with another vehicle in a few days? It didn't have any mechanical issues before it was put up, to my knowledge, so I don't think the engine is seized from some serious internal issue. I think it's just stuck from sitting too long (6+ years)

Still that does NOT explain the starter just spinning... It should engage the teeth and spin over the engine or stop the starter... Just spinning makes me wonder if you have a starter problem, or the wrong starter...

 

[Eman85]

Still that does NOT explain the starter just spinning... It should engage the teeth and spin over the engine or stop the starter... Just spinning makes me wonder if you have a starter problem, or the wrong starter...

Least of the problems, probably defective like many replacement parts.

 

[ErnieD]

Still that does NOT explain the starter just spinning... It should engage the teeth and spin over the engine or stop the starter... Just spinning makes me wonder if you have a starter problem, or the wrong starter...

or broken ring gear teeth

 

[Sean in PA]

or broken ring gear teeth

From his post #13 above:

I pulled the starter and inspected the ring gear. No broken teeth that I could see. I pulled the spark plugs and tried to turn the motor using a socket on the front crankshaft bolt. It would not budge.