Ford 5000 SOS Direct Drive Clutch Hub

[nashranch]

If you've been following my NO GO Ford 5000 SOS problems. With the help of Bern and my hands on tear down of this tranny we've come to the conclusion i need a good used direct drive clutch hub and the clutch discs that go inside. Somebody on this forum has got to have the parts i need. Please reach out to me if you have what i need. Call or text me at 541-228-54 five three and make my day.

Thanks all Mike at NashRanch

 

[Sean in PA]

If you've been following my NO GO Ford 5000 SOS problems. With the help of Bern and my hands on tear down of this tranny we've come to the conclusion i need a good used direct drive clutch hub and the clutch discs that go inside. Somebody on this forum has got to have the parts i need. Please reach out to me if you have what i need. Call or text me at 541-228-54 five three and make my day.

Thanks all Mike at NashRanch

Try looking up the part number in the parts drawings and then search for the part number on tractor-part.com. I have been amazed at what parts I have been able to find there based on just the Ford part number. It is a clearinghouse database for a large number of tractor salvage yards. Once the search returns a list of salvage yards that claim to have it in stock, contact the salvage yards directly.

 

[nashranch]

Thanks Sean.. Part number i get is C5NN7C076B
Hopefully that's the right number.
Clutch discs i need are part# C5NNP743B and C8AP7B442A. Clutch discs still available thru CNH

 

[Bern]

Thanks Sean.. Part number i get is C5NN7C076B
Hopefully that's the right number.
Clutch discs i need are part# C5NNP743B and C8AP7B442A. Clutch discs still available thru CNH

Wrong part number there Mike. You want either reference #17 (complete assembly) or #18 (clutch housing only) at this link: https://www.mycnhstore.com/us/en/ne...56875BD6/34F7724F-E6BE-E111-9FCE-005056875BD6

You have the correct part numbers for the discs.

 

[nashranch]

Thanks Bern... I checked out tractor-part.com and 3 places that have the clutch listed... Waiting for a Price reply

 

[wp6529]

Pretty sure that housing could be repaired, possibly with flame spray buildup and regrind down to a proper size. If I'm looking at it correctly the damaged surface just needs to be smooth and proper dimension for seals to hold against very modest hydraulic pressure (<300psi?). Possibly even a metal filled epoxy product would be sufficient followed by some toolpost grinder work.

 

[Destroked 450]

I’m sure I have the parts you need since I have 2 sos transmissions for a 5000, but neither trans has been opened
It would be simpler to sell you a complete trans but I’m in Ky and I believe your in Tx so that would be a fair road trip
If you can’t find the parts you need let me know and maybe we can work something out

 

[nashranch]

Pretty sure that housing could be repaired, possibly with flame spray buildup and regrind down to a proper size. If I'm looking at it correctly the damaged surface just needs to be smooth and proper dimension for seals to hold against very modest hydraulic pressure (<300psi?). Possibly even a metal filled epoxy product would be sufficient followed by some toolpost grinder work.

Here's a pic of the problem area where I'm loosing pressure. The grooves would have to be built-up

 

[wp6529]

Can you mark where the problem groves are? Looking at that I see a lathe machined finish (the area of fine evenly spaced groves circled in yellow) which were presumably left as-is as they are not intended as a seal surface. The manual pics are pretty poor, but it looks like the groves circled in red are the location where split sealing rings on the input shaft run. If those groves have been worn by the sealing rings, the rings themselves must be shot.

'm pretty sure a filled epoxy properly bonded in the grove and then turned down to match the surrounding area would work fine. If I'm looking at it correctly there is no pressure exerted axially on the sealing rings when the DDC is not applied and the rings more-or-less float. When the DDC clutch is applied pressure will force the rings outward axially in the input shaft groves and also help push the rings outward to seal against the DDC housing which will be locked to the input shaft rotation by the applied clutch plates.

I'm also thinking that the missing cam on the control valve could well be allowing the associated spool to shift out of position since there is no stop and you indicated a bad spring and cause the pressure loss you are seeing. I'm not convinced that the groves in the DDC clutch housing are the culprit.

 

[nashranch]

Give me a call Bern if you have time
Mike 541-228-5453

 

[nashranch]

Can you mark where the problem groves are? Looking at that I see a lathe machined finish (the area of fine evenly spaced groves circled in yellow) which were presumably left as-is as they are not intended as a seal surface. The manual pics are pretty poor, but it looks like the groves circled in red are the location where split sealing rings on the input shaft run. If those groves have been worn by the sealing rings, the rings themselves must be shot.

'm pretty sure a filled epoxy properly bonded in the grove and then turned down to match the surrounding area would work fine. If I'm looking at it correctly there is no pressure exerted axially on the sealing rings when the DDC is not applied and the rings more-or-less float. When the DDC clutch is applied pressure will force the rings outward axially in the input shaft groves and also help push the rings outward to seal against the DDC housing which will be locked to the input shaft rotation by the applied clutch plates.

I'm also thinking that the missing cam on the control valve could well be allowing the associated spool to shift out of position since there is no stop and you indicated a bad spring and cause the pressure loss you are seeing. I'm not convinced that the groves in the DDC clutch housing are the culprit.

Your pics did not come thru wp

 

[nashranch]

Can you mark where the problem groves are? Looking at that I see a lathe machined finish (the area of fine evenly spaced groves circled in yellow) which were presumably left as-is as they are not intended as a seal surface. The manual pics are pretty poor, but it looks like the groves circled in red are the location where split sealing rings on the input shaft run. If those groves have been worn by the sealing rings, the rings themselves must be shot.

'm pretty sure a filled epoxy properly bonded in the grove and then turned down to match the surrounding area would work fine. If I'm looking at it correctly there is no pressure exerted axially on the sealing rings when the DDC is not applied and the rings more-or-less float. When the DDC clutch is applied pressure will force the rings outward axially in the input shaft groves and also help push the rings outward to seal against the DDC housing which will be locked to the input shaft rotation by the applied clutch plates.

I'm also thinking that the missing cam on the control valve could well be allowing the associated spool to shift out of position since there is no stop and you indicated a bad spring and cause the pressure loss you are seeing. I'm not convinced that the groves in the DDC clutch housing are the culprit.

Your pics did not come thru wp

 

[wp6529]

 

[nashranch]

Yep those are massive wear grooves wp. I don't plan on any spray welding or epoxy filler to fix the problem. That's a critical area in the tranny and the whole transmission has got to be torn apart to even get to that direct drive clutch

 

[nashranch]

Just took apart band 2 clutch pack Bern .. They look real good

 

[pomester]

Just took apart band 2 clutch pack Bern .. They look real good

As I recall, the steel disks are suppose to have a Bellville type spring to them. There's a test to see if that spring still exists or whether they have become flat. I don't have the manual handy, but the test is in there. I recall replacing some of them those many years ago, I would have replaced all, but CNH is (was?) rather proud of those pieces.

 

[wp6529]

Not having a good one for comparison doesn't help, but I'm still not convinced. The pic isn't totally clear and the part still oily, but it really looks like those "wear groves" have a tooling pattern in them very consistent with the other lathe tooling marks.

The lack of difficulty taking that clutch apart and the missing spool valve actuator cam really make me think the problem is elsewhere. Yes, a critical part and difficult to get to, but the reality is you have four piston rings (two at each end of the input shaft) with gaps sealing low pressure <300psi hydraulic pressure to apply the DD clutch pack. The piston rings have gaps and some leakage is expected and the pump should be moving more than enough oil volume to compensate for the leakage. I seem to recall that the input shaft has a pressed / swaged in ball at the end to seal the axial drilled oil passage, perhaps that is where the leakage is occurring?

I would definitely be interested in seeing a pic of a known good DDC housing for comparison to see what those areas look like.

 

[nashranch]

Not having a good one for comparison doesn't help, but I'm still not convinced. The pic isn't totally clear and the part still oily, but it really looks like those "wear groves" have a tooling pattern in them very consistent with the other lathe tooling marks.

The lack of difficulty taking that clutch apart and the missing spool valve actuator cam really make me think the problem is elsewhere. Yes, a critical part and difficult to get to, but the reality is you have four piston rings (two at each end of the input shaft) with gaps sealing low pressure <300psi hydraulic pressure to apply the DD clutch pack. The piston rings have gaps and some leakage is expected and the pump should be moving more than enough oil volume to compensate for the leakage. I seem to recall that the input shaft has a pressed / swaged in ball at the end to seal the axial drilled oil passage, perhaps that is where the leakage is occurring?

I would definitely be interested in seeing a pic of a known good DDC housing for comparison to see what those areas look like.

I would like to see a new one too

 

[Destroked 450]

There were no groves in that drum when new, if you could measure the depth of the grove and double it that will give you the added end gap clearance

 

[nashranch]

Jerry.. I wish you had your two 5000 SOS trannys tore apart so we could see what your Direct drive clutches look like in yours.
And I'm Springfield, Oregon not Texas