IH B275 Glow Plug troubleshoot

[JoeV1973]

Hello all hoping someone can help us troubleshoot a 1959 IH B275. Being my first tractor and the first diesel I've ever messed with, I hope I could type this out and somewhat sound like I know what I'm talking about lol. I'll try my best.



The previous owner is my neighbor & he is helping me troubleshoot also. He said when he purchased the tractor years back he installed 4 new glow plugs & heat resistor indicator which instantly burned up when he tried to use it. He tried to replace it three times over the years and all three times it burned up.

I told him I was going to purchase a new indicator & he insisted on checking the wiring so we can get to the bottom of why the heat resistor indicator keeps getting fried.

Today my new part arrived and he noticed the metal coil inside the part was thicker and heavier than the part that has burned up on him several times.

I installed the resistor indicator and we went to try it and nothing happened. I suppose this is a good thing because we were expecting it to burn up.

So on my dashboard there is a black button which is the switch to engage the glow plugs. We started testing there in the switch is getting power. We then tested the new resistor indicator which is also getting power.

We then went to the first glow plug which I believe would be glow plug #4 (towards the rear of the engine) and again we found power. Upon trying the next glow plug #3 no power.

We took out glow plug #3 & cleaned the connectors and still no power. We then switched glow plug #3 & #4 and the same thing happened. We had power to glow plug #4 and glow plug number 3 nothing.

Up at the front just behind the radiator I found a good solid ground coming from glow plug number 1. I took some photos. Hoping something will catch someone's eye.

So from what I understand, the key turns one click clockwise. Then you hold the black button where the resistor indicator should begin to glow. Then a red button spins the starter. Would sure like to get off this ether lol.

 

[JoeV1973]

The ground behind radiator

 

[JimB2]

I will help tomorrow.
Do you have VOM meter?

 

[wore out]

I don't know what your level of knowledge on this is, so I'll start at the beginning... The 4 glowplugs and the dashboard indicator are all connected in SERIES.

Each glowplug has two "terminals"/contacts, a brass "face" on the porcelain is one terminal and the threaded stem/knurled nut is the other.

At each GP the copper "loop" that is put on first will contact the brass on the face of the insulator, then there's an insulating washer that keeps the second copper loop connected from touching the first.

It's impossible (at least for my eyes) to see EXACTLY what the connections look like at each G.P., it would have been good to have zoomed in there because those connections are KEY to getting the system to work.

The darned parts catalog doesn't show the individual washers and insulating washers on the glowplugs,which would be great if it showed how the parts are "stacked".

I would GUESS that one or more of the copper loops/connections that are supposed to be insulated from each other at EVERY G.P. are in contact and have overloaded and burned out one or more of the other G.P.'s. because of excessive current resulting from ALL the G.P,'s not being in series.

If you get tired of mucking around with this slow heating, archaic system you can upgrade to Bosch 80035 "Duraterm" glowplugs and connect them in PARALLEL.

They heat up MUCH faster and are self-regulating so they won't burn out if your finger lingers a bit too long on the button!

If you want to get REALLY creative you can use a GM 6.2 diesel G.P.controller to make them cycle automatically just like a modern machine!

 

[wore out]

<img src = https://i.imgur.com/JiZ4UVk.jpg>

Trying again to post the diagram.
Click to view the diagram in a more useable size.

 

[caterpillar guy]

Just looking at the pictures if I'm seeing things right the #3 GP looks like it has a lot of dirt maybe under it to not ground good for a connection and it looks like there is a difference in the washers at the wire. #4 and 2 look to have a cup shaped washer that is not on 3and maybe 1 though 1 is hard to see with the fuel line in the way. I tested the ones in my pick up by touching them with a battery charger and as soon as they turned red or started to I stopped the juice and went to the next one. Any that didn't color with juice I replaced.

 

[JoeV1973]

Thank you for the response, here is a question If a glow plug is burnt out Will you see visible damage to the filament on the end? Also, is upgrading to Bosch glow plugs as simple as changing the glow plugs or will there be lots of rewiring involved??

This post was edited by JoeV1973 on 04/27/2022 at 05:05 am.

 

[JoeV1973]

Thank you. I will give all four of them a close inspection after work today

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I wouldnt recommend changing the entire system
yet. In the pictures it appears that numbers 2 and 3
arent burning at all... its wired to go right past
them. Remember there are two contacts per glow
plug ... they are NOT grounded at the threads.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Took a closer look and yes they are wired ok. But it only takes one burn-out to stop the whole system from glowing, as there is no ground through burned out plug.

 

[JoeV1973]

We have a multimeter if that's the same. Thanks for the help

 

[Fritz Maurer]

You can test them with a test light while they are still
in the engine. Have a helper hold the button down
while you start at the rear of the engine with a test
light. Touch the probe to each of the connecting
wires, starting at the rear. When you get one that
does not light, the glow plug you just passed is the
faulty one. If you have four lights but still no glow
heat, the ground is bad at the front of the head.

 

[JoeV1973]

After checking for power from the switch and the resistor indicator, we then moved to the glow plugs Glow plug number 4 closest to the dash has power glow plug number 3 , 2 and 1 no power.

 

[JoeV1973]

Ordered 4 new glow plugs

 

[JimB2]

I also recommend upgrading to the new style glow plugs.

First verify the copper wire are installed properly as other posts have recommended.
When everything is working correctly the voltage at the wire that comes from the resistor in the dash to the glow plug at closest to battery box should be 6V, if you read 12V then there is an blown open glow
plug and you have to keep measuring the voltage on the in and out of the copper wires until you find the one that has 0V on the out side.
The worst case is when a glow plug blows but part of the element touches the pre-combustion chamber and shorts to ground and it will blow all the glow plugs closer to the battery box.
Usually the glow plugs blowout and go open circuit. You can remove them and examine them and test with an Ohm meter. DO NOT APPLY 12V on the glow plugs directly or they will blowout.

 

[JoeV1973]

Good info. Thank you. Going to replace all four glow plugs and give all the connections a good cleaning

 

[wore out]

(quoted from post at 06:58:16 04/27/22)
Good info. Thank you. Going to replace all four glow plugs and give all the connections a good cleaning

If you are in fact going to replace all the G.P.'s, SURELY you will get the new type?

That will eliminate ALL the series/double connections at each G.P. and the new Duroterms don't burn out if kept on too long.

MUCH quicker to heat up for a nice quick, clean engine start.

 

[JoeV1973]

I did not.... I did a search for glow plugs by my tractor model number and purchased what came up. I am going to look into the new style glow plugs now

This post was edited by JoeV1973 on 04/27/2022 at 12:00 pm.

 

[JimB2]

Some links to old posts of new glow plugs for B275, B414D and other units that use the BD-144 and BD-154 engines:

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=farmall&th=1076998

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=farmall&th=959462

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=farmall&th=848389

https://mercedessource.com/store/190d-200d-220d-early-240d-fast-glow-plug-upgrade-w-manual-push-button-control

 

[JoeV1973]

So an update and a question.

I installed 4 new glow plugs. Removing #4 the filament was bent. It may have been touching metal inside the engine not sure . After installing 4 new glow plugs I hit the switch &amp; the resistor indicator lit up. I didn't hold it to long for fear it would burn out like the last 3.

I have to charge the battery overnight before I crank it &amp; also have to bleed the fuel lines as I had to remove lines from injector pump to change plugs.

My question is before I came in for the night I decided to hold the switch for 30 seconds to make sure the resistor indicator was not going to burn up.

While holding the switch in for 30 seconds I heard a quiet "pop" sound from the engine. It was not violent or loud just a pop. After I heard the pop I let off the switch.

I waited a minute and hit the switch again &amp; the resistor indicator still works. Also this last test I took my finger &amp; touched each glow plug &amp; I could feel the heat so they are working. What was the pop sound??? Lol


I'm editing this post. I know what the pop was. I just went out there. It's dark and I hit the resistor and held it in for about 30 seconds and the exhaust manifold backfired an actual flame lol

This post was edited by JoeV1973 on 04/29/2022 at 06:01 pm.

 

[wore out]

"the exhaust manifold backfired an actual flame lol"

You answered your own question, a red hot g.p. lit of some fuel vapors in both instances.

 

[JoeV1973]

would have been ether lol. Hoping after I get a fuel delivery problem solved I am off the ether.