Weak Starter

[sdporter]

First time on here to post. I ve looked around a little bit, but that s it. Not sure I m posting this in the right spot but you will all let me know if not, I m sure. Haha. I have an old Ford tractor that we bought from a recently widowed neighbor. Her husband was in the middle of a tear down when he passed and we aquired it. Not sure if it s 9n or 2n.
We have it most of the way put back together and were ready to give it a test fire the other night. Brand new battery, hit the starter switch and the starter would barely turn, and slow at that. 6 volt system. I jumped the switch and hit it with jumper cables, same result. Pulled the starter and hit it with the cables and it spins okay, but starts out slow and winds up to speed, but it seems it s spinning too slow for no load. Front bronze bearing was sloppy so that has been replaced. Removed rotor and checked the commutator to rotor shaft with an ohm meter, no short. Checked field windings to case and no short, field brush to field brush so no resistance, reading of 0 ohms. Commutator has zero ohms from side to side although I haven t checked each individual bar to the bar next to it. After replacing the front bearing, I hit it again with the jumper cables and I can literally hold the shaft from spinning with little effort. Ant tips? And thank you in advance.

 

[old]

Sounds like the starter maybe on its last leg. Many times a short in the windings cannot be tested with just a VOM and you need better test equipment to do better tests of the starter windings etc.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

First is to ID your model. The 9N & 2N were basically the same from 1940 thru the end of production in 1947. 9N/2N used a 3 FWD SPD Transmission, draft control only, a
1-Wire Starter Motor that had NO Relay (Solenoid). Know too that the 8N, 47-50, used a 4-FWD SPD trans and had POSITION CONTROL along with DRAFT CONTROL. FORD
Electrical systems were all 6V/POS GRN til late 1950's diesels, BUT, don't assume because you have a 6V battery it is wired correctly for this system. Charging was by
a 1-Wire/3-Brush GENERATOR that used the roundcan cutout circuit. Whether using a GEN or an ALT, you must have a fan belt tensioning device affixed otherwise you will
never charge the battery. The usual culprit for a weak-starting/non-starting issue is a dead battery. Get it tested at local GEN/ALT shop under load on their
equipment. Batteries can be bad out the door especially at bargain house stores. The test is FREE at reliable shops. If your guy wants to charge (pun intended) you for
a battery test, walk away and find another who does. Also, know that 99.98% of all poor/non-starting issues are due to incorrect wiring. Go to the LINK below to read
about ID'g your FORD Tractor. Then invest in the Essential Manuals and documents for your roadmap. The I&T FO-4 Service Manual is vital to own if'N ya wanna be an N-
Owner. The WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE IN YOUR SHOP. Avoid guessing and yanking parts off willy-nilly and buying new ones. A true root
cause problem solving method is required for any problem. Best to get and read manuals and understanding each component and how they function. The N-Series used a
Front Mounted Distributor from 1939 thru 1950 and is the most misunderstood feature. Setting and testing timing are gone a certain way and the unit must be mounted on
engine only one correct way. Get it wrong and you destroy the base. Read and digest the info before you do anything else.


I&T FO-4 SERVICE MANUAL:

WIRING PICTOGRAMS:

Tim Daley (MI)
ID MY TRACTOR

 

[Hobo,NC]

I don't know why I will waist my time cuzz no one is gonna check the system like it should be checked.

You always start with a know good battery and to know that it needs to be checked with a high amp load tester not one made for a small lawn mower battery. A conductance tester is used to sell battery's and to reject warranty claims its a vicious cycle to sell you another battery, basically it lies.

Voltage readings are a must are its all a guess.

A high amp clamp are amp probe will tell the rest of the story.

I have a N (12V) in the shop with a new amazon starter it spins over about as slow as a 6V starter the owner has brought 2 new battery's they load test good. The starter is pulling close to 500 amps its getting another starter.

If you want to short cut this what have I learned with just the amp clamp the circuit (load) can draw 500 amps. ??? make your best guess.

 

[grandpa Love]

My dad's Ford N mutt's starter crapped
out, quick trip to Napa for a new one,
back running. Sometimes it's easier,
faster and better to just buy one. Keep
the original and fix it when you have
time.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I would be interested in the Napa part # you used.



https://www.napaonline.com/en/searc...-tractor-parts/ford_tractor/2n/1946/201579618

 

[Hobo,NC]

Came in pulled starter on N with dragging starter. Installed late August the rear bushing is SHOT low bidder got the contract.

 

[Colin King]

I would recommend taking it to a reputable starter repair shop and have them take a look at it. If you have an old fashioned service station locally, ask them for a shop recommendation. Otherwise, I can put you in touch with a shop here in Minnesota that I believe does mail order work or one out of Virginia that does.

Colin, MN

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 10:29:49 11/30/23)
I would be interested in the Napa part # you used.

:shock:

does the $486 include the tractor too?

 

[sdporter]

(quoted from post at 01:34:13 11/30/23) First is to ID your model. The 9N & 2N were basically the same from 1940 thru the end of production in 1947. 9N/2N used a 3 FWD SPD Transmission, draft control only, a
1-Wire Starter Motor that had NO Relay (Solenoid). Know too that the 8N, 47-50, used a 4-FWD SPD trans and had POSITION CONTROL along with DRAFT CONTROL. FORD
Electrical systems were all 6V/POS GRN til late 1950's diesels, BUT, don't assume because you have a 6V battery it is wired correctly for this system. Charging was by
a 1-Wire/3-Brush GENERATOR that used the roundcan cutout circuit. Whether using a GEN or an ALT, you must have a fan belt tensioning device affixed otherwise you will
never charge the battery. The usual culprit for a weak-starting/non-starting issue is a dead battery. Get it tested at local GEN/ALT shop under load on their
equipment. Batteries can be bad out the door especially at bargain house stores. The test is FREE at reliable shops. If your guy wants to charge (pun intended) you for
a battery test, walk away and find another who does. Also, know that 99.98% of all poor/non-starting issues are due to incorrect wiring. Go to the LINK below to read
about ID'g your FORD Tractor. Then invest in the Essential Manuals and documents for your roadmap. The I&T FO-4 Service Manual is vital to own if'N ya wanna be an N-
Owner. The WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE IN YOUR SHOP. Avoid guessing and yanking parts off willy-nilly and buying new ones. A true root
cause problem solving method is required for any problem. Best to get and read manuals and understanding each component and how they function. The N-Series used a
Front Mounted Distributor from 1939 thru 1950 and is the most misunderstood feature. Setting and testing timing are gone a certain way and the unit must be mounted on
engine only one correct way. Get it wrong and you destroy the base. Read and digest the info before you do anything else.


I&T FO-4 SERVICE MANUAL:
<center><img src=https://i.imgur.com/Rnfo7sll.jpg></center>

WIRING PICTOGRAMS:
<center><img src=https://i.imgur.com/d0yuVcil.jpg></center>
<center><img src=https://i.imgur.com/Swubdfml.jpg></center>
<center><img src=https://i.imgur.com/HqXdOn9l.jpg></center>
<center><img src=https://i.imgur.com/TBC19a5l.jpg></center>
<center><img src=https://i.imgur.com/P03gGVFl.jpg></center>
<center><img src=https://i.imgur.com/2KkQjBal.jpg></center>


Tim Daley (MI)
ID MY TRACTOR

I have that service manual and a couple other smaller ones. Those wiring diagrams are a lot easier to see than the ones I have for the tractor. Thank you. I ll figure it out Or get another starter. Maybe both. Thanks for your time.