Current restored Ford 861 value

[Midwest Tractor Guy]

Been lurking for a while, and I understand value is typically a personal perception but I'm seeking guidance and opinions to ensure I don't make a mistake.

I see lots of tractors coming on the market with a wide range of prices and some seem a but high. What should I expect to pay for a "restored" 861 without a loader (newer paint, newer tires, runs and everything works) tractor. Not looking for a parade tractor, just some good mechanically here in the Midwest, thanks.

 

[old]

Been lurking for a while, and I understand value is typically a personal perception but I'm seeking guidance and opinions to ensure I don't make a mistake.

I see lots of tractors coming on the market with a wide range of prices and some seem a but high. What should I expect to pay for a "restored" 861 without a loader (newer paint, newer tires, runs and everything works) tractor. Not looking for a parade tractor, just some good mechanically here in the Midwest, thanks.

Depends on if it is a true restore of just a paint job. A true restore is the bring it back to what it was the day it rolled out of the factory anything else is not a true restore

 

[Midwest Tractor Guy]

Depends on if it is a true restore of just a paint job. A true restore is the bring it back to what it was the day it rolled out of the factory anything else is not a true restore

Agreed, I'm using the term loosely as I don't believe most of these tractors listed are real restorations from the ground up. So what about a price range for complete tractor with new parts and paint that is called "restored" by the seller. Just trying to get a reasonable value range as this is very subjective, what someone is asking is not always the value as we all know. Thanks!

 

[moresmoke]

I would venture $3500-4000. An 861 is still a quite useable tractor for someone that needs one.

 

[Steve in IL]

Been lurking for a while, and I understand value is typically a personal perception but I'm seeking guidance and opinions to ensure I don't make a mistake.

I see lots of tractors coming on the market with a wide range of prices and some seem a but high. What should I expect to pay for a "restored" 861 without a loader (newer paint, newer tires, runs and everything works) tractor. Not looking for a parade tractor, just some good mechanically here in the Midwest, thanks.

Look for a tractor that is mechanically sound. Don’t worry about paint. In fact, I’d rather have the original paint than something just slapped on to make the machine look good.

Also… Don’t just look for a 861. Early 4000s can be essentially the same thing (but a 4000 can be optioned differently, so be careful).

Newer tires are always good. Power steering is good. A tractor that has never been a loader tractor is good.

Expect to pay $4k, plus or minus !2k. A wide range yes, but a 60’year old tractor can be in very different conditions.

 

[Dean]

Been lurking for a while, and I understand value is typically a personal perception but I'm seeking guidance and opinions to ensure I don't make a mistake.

I see lots of tractors coming on the market with a wide range of prices and some seem a but high. What should I expect to pay for a "restored" 861 without a loader (newer paint, newer tires, runs and everything works) tractor. Not looking for a parade tractor, just some good mechanically here in the Midwest, thanks.

As others have stated, "restored" means very different things to different people.

That said, a good 861 can bring $5,000 or more.

Be advised that the diesel versions have a converted gasoline 172 CI engine that is known to break crankshafts, balancer or otherwise. Diesels also produce significantly less HP than do gasoline versions.

 

[Midwest Tractor Guy]

Thanks for the replies and input, it is greatly appreciated.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

Been lurking for a while, and I understand value is typically a personal perception but I'm seeking guidance and opinions to ensure I don't make a mistake.

I see lots of tractors coming on the market with a wide range of prices and some seem a but high. What should I expect to pay for a "restored" 861 without a loader (newer paint, newer tires, runs and everything works) tractor. Not looking for a parade tractor, just some good mechanically here in the Midwest, thanks.

Yep, again, we cannot put a price tag on anything unless we can actually see in person. New paint isn't a major factor to me as a lot of guys try to mask oil leaks and sometimes welds and cracks by spraying a quick rattle can job on. Rubber and sheet metal important but a secondary factor and a quick visual review for dry rot and evidence tires are loaded with Ca Chl only takes a minute. Mechanics and electrical are what is most important. Does it start right up and run now? How is the oil pressure? What is the wiring like? Old wiring, new wiring, or a ho-made cobbled up job? Is it OEM 6V/POS GRN or has a 12v switcheroo job been done and either way is it wired correctly for that system? If converted are all the original 6V parts included? Battery condition? New or older? Do you have a Float Charger or just put your trickle charger on all the time you need to start tractor? Do the Hydraulics come right up? Raise 3-PT and leave UP then shut down. Does the lift drop within minutes or can you see a slow drop? Dash Gauges working properly? Any extra accessories: air precleaner, bumper guard, wheel weights drawbars, stay bars, stabilizers bars, a Sherman or other aux transmission? OEM Owner's Manual included and an I&T manual and MPC are a bonus. Any missing parts or not working? You can start by looking on Ebay, Craigs List, and ADS forums for a similar tractor and look at prices and features for ideas. Pictures go far. Post many especially close-ups of critical parts. Often views from 6 ft away will hide features. List specific components like if you have a DELCO 10-SI Alternator, show it. You could have posted a few pix here to give you an idea.

Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Tom in Mo.]

Opinions are like noses, everybody has one. Your user name implies Midwest location. I live in East/Central Missouri and have never paid over $3400. for the best 861. The last 861 I bought at estate auction with rebuilt engine and new rubber for $2700. My current 961 was $1500. My current early 4000 SOS with near new rears was $2200. 1965 2000 diesel with new rubber was $3000. And there are more.
Avoid Craiglist. Look at farm/estate auctions and be prepared to walk away. I always want good tires as this is your most expensive cost.

 

[Tom in Mo.]

......PS: When I see fresh paint the yellow flag goes up. If it's a drive by paint job with overspray, walk away as it's usually lipstick on a pig.

 

[Steve in IL]

Thanks for the replies and input, it is greatly appreciated.

One further comment… Unless you are set on a 861, in addition to considering the first generation 4000 (essentially a rebranded 861), perhaps look at the 3 cylinder Ford tractors that replaced them (about 1965). We have a 4000 SU, which is like a 861 on steroids.

 

[showcrop]

With the info provided I would put it right at $1500 to $7500.

 

[Dean]

Opinions are like noses, everybody has one. Your user name implies Midwest location. I live in East/Central Missouri and have never paid over $3400. for the best 861. The last 861 I bought at estate auction with rebuilt engine and new rubber for $2700. My current 961 was $1500. My current early 4000 SOS with near new rears was $2200. 1965 2000 diesel with new rubber was $3000. And there are more.
Avoid Craiglist. Look at farm/estate auctions and be prepared to walk away. I always want good tires as this is your most expensive cost.

I recently sold my 1964, 4 cylinder 4000 SOS for $7,000.

 

[Midwest Tractor Guy]

Tractor has about 400 hrs on a engine rebuild, 6v system, power steering with a leaky cylinder, new carb, pie weights with 4 new tires, newer gauges, about 50psi oil pressure, new hydraulic pump, set of rear remotes. 3 point up/down and doesn't fall, engine starts up without any hesitation, has plenty of power and overall it drives really nice. Not really red flags from what I could tell, the brakes suck but I guess that is to be expected on these older tractors.

 

[Steve in IL]

Very nice! The brakes are easily rebuildable. But given that they are just mechanical cam drum brakes, you’re right… They are never powerful. What are your plans for that tractor?

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

Been lurking for a while, and I understand value is typically a personal perception but I'm seeking guidance and opinions to ensure I don't make a mistake.

I see lots of tractors coming on the market with a wide range of prices and some seem a but high. What should I expect to pay for a "restored" 861 without a loader (newer paint, newer tires, runs and everything works) tractor. Not looking for a parade tractor, just some good mechanically here in the Midwest, thanks.

I concur with OLD. Folks use the term "restoration" to describe anything they think will add to a sale regardless if it is a true total, all OEM correct restoration. The term should read "refurbished". Slap some new rattle can paint on to hide oil and/or block cracks and hope cosmetics sell it. Buying new aftermarket parts like carbs, gauges, and such makes me question why. What was 'wrong' with the original? Also saying it is 6V means nothing if it isn't wired correctly for OEM 6V/POS GRN. Don't assume. "... Tractor has about 400 hrs on a engine rebuild..." Is that what the Proofmeter shows or you've tracked actual engine running time? HOURS on a Proofmeter: one hour on hourmeter represents one clock hour of tractor operation at 1580 engine RPMS. An engine speed below 1580 RPM will accumulate hourmeter hours slower than clock hours and above 1580 RPM will register faster clock hours Fellas often use the term incorrectly.

The condition of engine, electronics, hydraulics, sheet metal, rubber, and what all is included with it like OEM parts and any optional accessories all are the main factors to look at. If a seller, look at ebay and other AD places, tractor magazines, AD forums like here, and boneyards for similar models and get an idea of market. When placing an AD take as many good, close-up pictures you can of all systems for selling points. Difficult to buy based solely on photos. I have to have the actual tractor in front of me to make any judgements.

Finally, it wouldn't be a FORD TRACTOR if it didn't have oil leaks poor brakes .... ; > )

Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Sean in PA]

I concur with OLD. Folks use the term "restoration" to describe anything they think will add to a sale regardless if it is a true total, all OEM correct restoration. The term should read "refurbished". Slap some new rattle can paint on to hide oil and/or block cracks and hope cosmetics sell it. Buying new aftermarket parts like carbs, gauges, and such makes me question why. What was 'wrong' with the original? Also saying it is 6V means nothing if it isn't wired correctly for OEM 6V/POS GRN. Don't assume. "... Tractor has about 400 hrs on a engine rebuild..." Is that what the Proofmeter shows or you've tracked actual engine running time? HOURS on a Proofmeter: one hour on hourmeter represents one clock hour of tractor operation at 1580 engine RPMS. An engine speed below 1580 RPM will accumulate hourmeter hours slower than clock hours and above 1580 RPM will register faster clock hours Fellas often use the term incorrectly.

The condition of engine, electronics, hydraulics, sheet metal, rubber, and what all is included with it like OEM parts and any optional accessories all are the main factors to look at. If a seller, look at ebay and other AD places, tractor magazines, AD forums like here, and boneyards for similar models and get an idea of market. When placing an AD take as many good, close-up pictures you can of all systems for selling points. Difficult to buy based solely on photos. I have to have the actual tractor in front of me to make any judgements.

Finally, it wouldn't be a FORD TRACTOR if it didn't have oil leaks poor brakes .... ; > )

Tim Daley (MI)

My '73 4000 has very good brakes.

 

[Midwest Tractor Guy]

I agree "Refurbished" is a more accurate depiction versus "Restored" on most if not all vintage tractors we see for sale. With that being said, these are old machines, and after 60+ years of service I expect parts to be changed as things just plain wear out don't last forever. The likelihood of finding OEM parts is scarce at best, not to mention some reproduction parts can be better in some cases as process, components and technology has improved over time, but certainly not in all cases as the vast majority of reproduction parts are junk in my opinion. This particular tractor was original to the family that was selling it. The history, experiences and stories alone are worth a discussion as those are becoming fewer and fewer instances as those generations pass on.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

My '73 4000 has very good brakes.

I was being flippant Sean...

You already know this but for others who don't, the Ford-Ferguson Moto-Tug was designed by FORD based on the 1942 9N Tractor but had many outside supplied special parts added, including hydraulic brakes. The TUGS at were designed to be on US Carriers in WWII to transport Corsairs around on deck. The tongue-in-cheek joke was you would not want standard Ford 9N Brakes on a Carrier as there was little protection over the edge and thus why hydraulics were used.

That all being said, another recent post was about using an ORC. It is highly advised to use an ORC on the PTO when mowing, brush hogging, and back blading as forward momentum from inertia forces will keep the tractor going forward even when clutch is depressed and brakes applied. Instances of fellas running into ditches and fences have been recorded all too often. A few fatal accidents also are on record. I myself ruined a radiator mowing my grass with my 8N as I did not have an ORC. I was mowing my 5 acre lawn with my 8N and WOODS 660 and there is a cluster of pine trees by the house I've learned to snake around and thru. This day I went to lift a branch out of the way and my sleeve got caught on the branch, was trapped, and I couldn't stop. I ended up ramming into another pine tree and smashed my grille which put the fan blade into the radiator. My OEM all original 1948 8N radiator was now ruined. Plan Z now was to get a another radiator so went to local tractor yard to buy a new aftermarket one so I could continue working. The new rad was junk. It didn't fit right and the neck was a tad too short so the cap scraped on the hood top. I made it work, had to. I later found an OEM 8N Rad and restored it then put it back on my 8N to keep it all original. LESSONS LEARNED

TPD