PTO housing help

[Dan]

Working on a 1950 8N for a buddy and discovered the hydraulic and differential housing was swapped out some time in the past with a 9N or 2N model (luckily the rear axle housings were still the 1950 version with the inner oil seal). Anyway, it has an original small 1 1/8" pto shaft but the seller gave to us what looked like a new 1 3/8" pto assembly. Since I am draining and replacing the transmission/hydraulic/differential fluid anyway I figured now would be a good time to swap the pto assembly out. Fits fine until the housing swells on the outside to snug up against the differential housing opening, then is just a smidge too tight. I figured I could just sand the outside housing a bit to get it to fit but so far no luck. The housing is an after market assembly made in England with a part number of R50303, but I cannot find anything about this part number and what tractor it fits. The original assembly that came out was 9N 733B and the area where it swells is only about 1/2" whereas this area on the new assembly is easily 3". The PTO shaft also does not have the swell for the inner oil seal close to the end splines like a later model has so I think it may be for an early N Series(?)

Any thoughts?

 

[Caryc]

I don't know if this will help you but I had this problem when I changed my old 1 1/8" shaft for a 1 3/8" shaft. I bought the whole shaft assembly from here on YT. It was complete with the casting and everything. There is one problem I had. Check out the picture below. The part with the arrow pointing to it was too large to actually fit into the hole in the tractor's casting. I had to make that part smaller to fit right. I had a large mill file that I bought for another purpose. It had the file teeth on both flat sides but no teeth on the edges of the file. With this file I was able to use the face of the file to file down that inner piece. With no file teeth on the sides of the file, it left no marks on the face where the gasket goes. I took a while but I finally got it to fit in the tractor and all worked out well.

Of course I could have taken it to a machine shop and had them remove a bit from that piece. But, I was determined to make it fit myself. Also, I could have used a rotary file on the hole in the tractor to enlarge it a bit. But I was worried about getting file shavings on the inside. I hope this helps you.

 

[Dan]

I don't know if this will help you but I had this problem when I changed my old 1 1/8" shaft for a 1 3/8" shaft. I bought the whole shaft assembly from here on YT. It was complete with the casting and everything. There is one problem I had. Check out the picture below. The part with the arrow pointing to it was too large to actually fit into the hole in the tractor's casting. I had to make that part smaller to fit right. I had a large mill file that I bought for another purpose. It had the file teeth on both flat sides but no teeth on the edges of the file. With this file I was able to use the face of the file to file down that inner piece. With no file teeth on the sides of the file, it left no marks on the face where the gasket goes. I took a while but I finally got it to fit in the tractor and all worked out well.

Of course I could have taken it to a machine shop and had them remove a bit from that piece. But, I was determined to make it fit myself. Also, I could have used a rotary file on the hole in the tractor to enlarge it a bit. But I was worried about getting file shavings on the inside. I hope this helps you.

This is exactly where mine is hanging up. Your area the arrow is pointing to is about 1/2" or so in width that is a larger diameter, mine is about 3" in this area. That is a lot of filing down. I don't mind doing it if needed, I just want to make sure this assembly isn't for some other make of tractor. The splines fit through the hydraulic pump so it leads me to believe it is for the N Series but since I didn't buy it was not sure.

Thanks for the reply, it is helpful.

 

[Caryc]

This is exactly where mine is hanging up. Your area the arrow is pointing to is about 1/2" or so in width that is a larger diameter, mine is about 3" in this area. That is a lot of filing down. I don't mind doing it if needed, I just want to make sure this assembly isn't for some other make of tractor. The splines fit through the hydraulic pump so it leads me to believe it is for the N Series but since I didn't buy it was not sure.

Thanks for the reply, it is helpful.

Where did you get the new shaft? A new PTO shaft assembly is not that expensive. It might save a lot of time and trouble to just order a new shaft from YT. A new conversion 1 3/8" shaft is $84.00. Be sure to order a new gasket and PTO cover too.

 

[Dan]

Where did you get the new shaft? A new PTO shaft assembly is not that expensive. It might save a lot of time and trouble to just order a new shaft from YT. A new conversion 1 3/8" shaft is $84.00. Be sure to order a new gasket and PTO cover too.

I got the assembly with the tractor from the seller, along with a bunch of other new parts he "intended" to install. I have no idea where it came from.

 

[Dan]

Final update for the records - the diameter of the swelled area on the pto assembly was just a smidge to large to go through the opening in the differential housing - it is amazing how very little difference there is between go and no-go! I measured all the diameters between the old pto and assembly and the new and they were correct so I figured it must be for a N Series (even though the design on the inside of the housing was different). My metal rasp was worthless and needs to be replaced so I tried using a dremel but it would dig in at spots and leave divots so I abandoned that idea. ultimately I put the pto shaft in my vise, put the pto cover on the end, and turned the housing by hand while holding a piece of 100 grit sandpaper on the swelled area. It took hours and a blister on my turning hand but I got the diameter smaller and was able to slide it in with some resistance but not too tight. I did have to use the dremel on the inside of the differential housing as the bottom bolt enclosure protruded up just a tad and rubbed on the pto assembly. I put paper towels in to catch as much of the grit as possible.

So, if anyone else in the future has a pto assembly marked Made in England and R50303 - it will fit a N Series but may need some modification.

Now, I just pray it doesn't leak when I add the GL1!

 

[Caryc]

Final update for the records - the diameter of the swelled area on the pto assembly was just a smidge to large to go through the opening in the differential housing - it is amazing how very little difference there is between go and no-go! I measured all the diameters between the old pto and assembly and the new and they were correct so I figured it must be for a N Series (even though the design on the inside of the housing was different). My metal rasp was worthless and needs to be replaced so I tried using a dremel but it would dig in at spots and leave divots so I abandoned that idea. ultimately I put the pto shaft in my vise, put the pto cover on the end, and turned the housing by hand while holding a piece of 100 grit sandpaper on the swelled area. It took hours and a blister on my turning hand but I got the diameter smaller and was able to slide it in with some resistance but not too tight. I did have to use the dremel on the inside of the differential housing as the bottom bolt enclosure protruded up just a tad and rubbed on the pto assembly. I put paper towels in to catch as much of the grit as possible.

So, if anyone else in the future has a pto assembly marked Made in England and R50303 - it will fit a N Series but may need some modification.

Now, I just pray it doesn't leak when I add the GL1!

Good for you, yeah it takes a little work but it can be done by hand. If you had a file like I mentioned, it would have been easier but at least you got it done. I think you will be fine because that part that you filed down doesn't do any sealing. The big flat face that you put the bolts through with the gasket keeps the oil in where it belongs. Now if you want to you can use a snap on ORC if you run one. After mowing the summer weeds, I just remove my ORC and put it in my storage shed and put the cap back on the PTO. No use having it sit out in the weather. Here's a hint though, it's advisable that if you run an ORC, to pump it full of grease every time you take that tractor out to mow and of course also grease the sliding shaft. Feels good to get a project done doesn't it?

Now I'm glad I took that picture and posted it. If it helped one guy it's a success. It's amazing how much one can learn from the guys here on this forum.

 

[Jim in LA]

Working on a 1950 8N for a buddy and discovered the hydraulic and differential housing was swapped out some time in the past with a 9N or 2N model (luckily the rear axle housings were still the 1950 version with the inner oil seal). Anyway, it has an original small 1 1/8" pto shaft but the seller gave to us what looked like a new 1 3/8" pto assembly. Since I am draining and replacing the transmission/hydraulic/differential fluid anyway I figured now would be a good time to swap the pto assembly out. Fits fine until the housing swells on the outside to snug up against the differential housing opening, then is just a smidge too tight. I figured I could just sand the outside housing a bit to get it to fit but so far no luck. The housing is an after market assembly made in England with a part number of R50303, but I cannot find anything about this part number and what tractor it fits. The original assembly that came out was 9N 733B and the area where it swells is only about 1/2" whereas this area on the new assembly is easily 3". The PTO shaft also does not have the swell for the inner oil seal close to the end splines like a later model has so I think it may be for an early N Series(?)

Any thoughts?

I had the exact same problem when I upgraded to the 1 3/8 shaft. I could have taken the time to grind that ridge down a little but didn’t. I was able to get about two threads started on the bolts and then I slowly tightened them in a cross pattern and it drew the PTO shaft in. Now, I don’t know if I will ever get it out of there if need be, but I got that stubborn thing in there. I bought the shaft from this site and do not hold them responsible whatsoever. I buy 95% of my 8N stuff on here. If it’s not made in the U.S. there’s a good chance it’s going to have some flaw or peculiarity in it but that’s the world we live in today.

 

[Caryc]

I had the exact same problem when I upgraded to the 1 3/8 shaft. I could have taken the time to grind that ridge down a little but didn’t. I was able to get about two threads started on the bolts and then I slowly tightened them in a cross pattern and it drew the PTO shaft in. Now, I don’t know if I will ever get it out of there if need be, but I got that stubborn thing in there. I bought the shaft from this site and do not hold them responsible whatsoever. I buy 95% of my 8N stuff on here. If it’s not made in the U.S. there’s a good chance it’s going to have some flaw or peculiarity in it but that’s the world we live in today.

I also worried about getting the shaft out again, that's why I kept at it with the file so If I ever had to remove it again, it wouldn't be a problem. You're lucky you didn't get it seated down to maybe a 1/6" gap was left and it wouldn't go any further.

 

[Dan]

I also worried about getting the shaft out again, that's why I kept at it with the file so If I ever had to remove it again, it wouldn't be a problem. You're lucky you didn't get it seated down to maybe a 1/6" gap was left and it wouldn't go any further.

Same for me, I was praying as I tightened the bolts up that it wouldn't leak!

 

[Caryc]

Same for me, I was praying as I tightened the bolts up that it wouldn't leak!

Well, there are lots of 60 year old PTO shafts still working in tractors. So, if it lasts 60 years, it will probably be someone else's problem after you've met your maker.