Electronic ignition???

[TipOtheMitt]

I have an 8N, When I bought it last year it ran like a top, but within 2 months it began running worse and worse, backfiring until it wouldn't run at all. I put new plugs and wires in, this helped a bit for a few days then it quit again. It has been suggested that these have timing issues and I should switch it over to electronic ignition. I tried to remove the distributor to see whats inside but couldn't pull it off. I am looking at the distributor and wouldn't know if it was electronic or not. Can someone tell me how to tell the difference? The electronic conversion kit is not overly expensive. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[TipOtheMitt]

I should have said It has a front distributor and I believe it's a 1949.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I have an 8N, When I bought it last year it ran like a top, but within 2 months it began running worse and worse, backfiring until it wouldn't run at all. I put new plugs and wires in, this helped a bit for a few days then it quit again. It has been suggested that these have timing issues and I should switch it over to electronic ignition. I tried to remove the distributor to see whats inside but couldn't pull it off. I am looking at the distributor and wouldn't know if it was electronic or not. Can someone tell me how to tell the difference? The electronic conversion kit is not overly expensive. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

If there are points inside the cap its not electronic.

TOH

 

[wore out]

I have an 8N, When I bought it last year it ran like a top, but within 2 months it began running worse and worse, backfiring until it wouldn't run at all. I put new plugs and wires in, this helped a bit for a few days then it quit again. It has been suggested that these have timing issues and I should switch it over to electronic ignition. I tried to remove the distributor to see whats inside but couldn't pull it off. I am looking at the distributor and wouldn't know if it was electronic or not. Can someone tell me how to tell the difference? The electronic conversion kit is not overly expensive. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

"It has been suggested that these have timing issues and I should switch it over to electronic ignition."

Dunno why so many folks think they have "timing issues"?

While that MAY be the case, dirty or mis-set breaker points, a "bad" condenser, or carburetor problems are very common, as well as a failing ignition switch or bad wiring/connections.

Installing EI will eliminate dirty or mis-set breaker points, as well as the condenser and partially compensate for worn distributor bushings, but does NOTHING for any timing advance problems in the distributor, and any fuel system other electrical problems that may exist.

 

[Jim L WA]

Hi Tip, welcome to the forum. If the tractor ran good when you first got it, then the odds of a timing issue are low. The first thing you need to do is order a copy of the I&T FO-4 Shop Manual. This site has them as do others.
The second thing you can do while waiting for the manual, is to pull a spark plug wire off of a spark plug, and hold it a good 1/4 inch from the head and with the key on turn the engine over and see if there is a good strong spark the jumps from the end of that wire. You do this when the tractor is acting up, not if it's running well.
The distributor is held in by two bolts. Remove the coil, the cap and the two bolts and it should come right out. You may have to gently tap the housing if it's been a long time since it was last removed. It only goes back in one way, just line the tab up with the groove in the end of the cam shaft, they are off set from center.
Let us know what you find.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

Your tractor has run for 76 years just fine on points. It sounds like it has a problem that needs found and remedied. It will not start or run any better with electronic than points. The vast majority of problems delt with here on YT are tractors with electronic ignition. focus on the problem at hand. Next time repairs will come easier.

 

[TheOldHokie]

The vast majority of problems delt with here on YT are tractors with electronic ignition.

Pretty bold statement. I have $20 that says its not even close

TOH

 

[Non-farmer]

Pretty bold statement. I have $20 that says its not even close

TOH

It's not bold, it's absurd. I'll match your $20.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

It's not bold, it's absurd. I'll match your $20.

We had "The old Scratchpad" going a few years back. Stock rules!

 

[Hobo,NC]

Your tractor has run for 76 years just fine on points. It sounds like it has a problem that needs found and remedied. It will not start or run any better with electronic than points. The vast majority of problems delt with here on YT are tractors with electronic ignition. focus on the problem at hand. Next time repairs will come easier.

It was a skeer tactic some used because they never understood the diagnostics on either is basically the same. They both suffer from the very same issues because their diagnostic ability were so poor they could not get it their in their head.

 

[jzimmer238]

I have an 8N, When I bought it last year it ran like a top, but within 2 months it began running worse and worse, backfiring until it wouldn't run at all.

I have a 48 8N that had points. My 8n would run good after new points or after setting the gap for about 10 hours and then the points needed gapped again. That may have been an easy fix for someone here but I did not post the question. I ended up replacing the points for EI. My only regret is that I left it 6V POS instead of converting it to 12N Neg at the same time. My generator failed a couple years after I converted my points to EI and installing a 6V POS alternator was more expensive than a 12V Neg.

Mine runs great with resistor plug wires, flamethrower coil, NGK B4L plugs. If you switch to EI you will need to make sure your coil has enough resistance. It runs so good now it smokes less than it has for 20 years. I believe this is from a hotter spark that has cleaned some of the deposits off the rings.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

It was a skeer tactic some used because they never understood the diagnostics on either is basically the same. They both suffer from the very same issues because their diagnostic ability were so poor they could not get it their in their head.

Yeah. It's called the"12 volt engine overhaul".
If you can just spin the worn-out motor over a bit faster, surely it will start. And run like a hit & miss!
Many N owners would be totally shocked if they could drive a strong, healthy version of their tractor.
Night & day difference in power.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Yeah. It's called the"12 volt engine overhaul".
If you can just spin the worn-out motor over a bit faster, surely it will start. And run like a hit & miss!
Many N owners would be totally shocked if they could drive a strong, healthy version of their tractor.
Night & day difference in power.

It was just another poor excuse to make up for what they did not know.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

A distributor with an electronic conversion will have a pair of wires coming out the side of it instead of a single wire connected to the points. That would be a way to tell if someone had done this already.

 

[Mad Farmer]

I have a 48 8N that had points. My 8n would run good after new points or after setting the gap for about 10 hours and then the points needed gapped again. That may have been an easy fix for someone here but I did not post the question. I ended up replacing the points for EI. My only regret is that I left it 6V POS instead of converting it to 12N Neg at the same time. My generator failed a couple years after I converted my points to EI and installing a 6V POS alternator was more expensive than a 12V Neg.

Mine runs great with resistor plug wires, flamethrower coil, NGK B4L plugs. If you switch to EI you will need to make sure your coil has enough resistance. It runs so good now it smokes less than it has for 20 years. I believe this is from a hotter spark that has cleaned some of the deposits off the rings.

Sounds like you were using cheap points. Lots of the new ones are ill fitting junk, same for coils/caps

My N is still 6V + ground w/points. The person I bought the tractor from had it serviced by a long time Ford dealer. It ran many many years before I needed to even inspect the distributor, started dead of winter in New England. It had Ford points w/Ford logo.

Anybody know who made the OEM points for Ford?

 

[Ultradog MN]

I'll match your $20.

As will I.

 

[jzimmer238]

Sounds like you were using cheap points. Lots of the new ones are ill fitting junk, same for coils/caps

My N is still 6V + ground w/points. The person I bought the tractor from had it serviced by a long time Ford dealer. It ran many many years before I needed to even inspect the distributor, started dead of winter in New England. It had Ford points w/Ford logo.

Anybody know who made the OEM points for Ford?

I have had good luck with points from small engines to dual point Mallory's.

The points on the 8N were Echlin from Napa. The points didn't burn and open up. The block would wear and the points would close with ample lube on the block. I have better things to do than pulling the distributor to adjust the points each season. Problem solved with an EI. I have had the tractor for 40 years and it has never ran better.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

As will I.

Well it's not a hidden mystery. Just start going back through the threads. It is a landslide for 12V problems. You boys best keep your 20 dollar bills in your pockets until you take a look. I WIN, I WIN!!!

 

[Fixingfarmer]

I have had good luck with points from small engines to dual point Mallory's.

The points on the 8N were Echlin from Napa. The points didn't burn and open up. The block would wear and the points would close with ample lube on the block. I have better things to do than pulling the distributor to adjust the points each season. Problem solved with an EI. I have had the tractor for 40 years and it has never ran better.

I have also had fantastic luck with EI. Especially on the 2 cylinders starting improves significantly. The super C was converted before I owned it 15 years ago. They seem to keep the plugs from fouling. On a 2 cylinder I also only have half as many chances to start per slow revolution so I like to give it every chance it has.

I have never made anything worse with EI. I HAVE fixed all my problems with a 6 dollar set of points, made sure everything was working good and engine is in time THEN converted it.

I have done that in the case of a bad coil as well. Customer had a tuneup kit he had bought a few years prior. I installed it everything was working fine then we converted it.

Fix the real problem then go after the upgrade and know your equipment what voltage and polarity. Time and time again I read here about EI troubles that often are not really EI troubles.

I have left the key on on my super c on accident many times. I haven't ever caused the burnout that is often described but that DOES NOT mean it doesn't happen to people. I have not personally seen it but I can imagine if one of the 150 dollar EI kits is fried its a tough pill to swallow and makes a persons opinion sour to them.

I believe there is also a new upgraded kit to prevent the burnout, I have not knowingly tried one yet unless they all are as I believe they were more expensive but the first customer that wants one I suppose we will try it. 250 bucks if I remember correctly.

These things sit for 6 months at a time even mine that get heavy use in the summer points don't like to sit. not everyone wants to spend the time getting good at doing points every time they want to use the tractor. If 150 bucks gets you 15 years of reliable service where the customer doesn't have to touch anything it can be used heavily or left in the shed until a parade keeps a lot of people happy.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Well it's not a hidden mystery. Just start going back through the threads. It is a landslide for 12V problems. You boys best keep your 20 dollar bills in your pockets until you take a look. I WIN, I WIN!!!

I think it goes back to sentimentalism:
"Grandpa's tractor had points so I'm gonna stick with points."
But Grandpa's 1948 Buick also had a tube type AM only radio, single circuit drum brakes and usually needed an engine overhaul at 100K.
Sentimentalism can give you a nice, warm, feeling - they write pretty songs about it. But when your tractor won't start - again - cause it's been sitting outside in damp weather for two weeks you'll be glad to give the boot to all that emotional stuff and just have the darned thing RUN when you need it.