841D making noise

[13fx]

Just picked up a nice 841D with loader/backhoe on it at auction. The guy repping the machine said that the one lever was to activate the backhoe unit but I think it's actually a Sherman unit. What I do know for sure is that when I pull the lever to the rear of the machine the rear end makes a terrible noise like a bearing is completely out. The noise does seem to come from the PTO shaft area but with the hoe in the way I can't pinpoint it. My first question is, am I correct in my belief that the lever is for a Sherman unit? My next question is does the rear end have to be split to change out whatever might be going wrong? I know this Is kinda vague and more guess work then for sures on what is wrong and what needs to be done .

Thanks
Steven

 

[David S WI]

It definitely looks like a Sherman over under shift lever. I believe typically a backhoe was run with the Sherman in overdrive. If your bearing noise is coming from the pto shaft there is no need to split the tractor to pull the pto shaft just drain the rear end fluid and hydraulic fluid take out the 4 bolts that hold the pto cover on and pull it out. With the backhoe you will have to remove that to get the pto shaft out.

 

[13fx]

It definitely looks like a Sherman over under shift lever. I believe typically a backhoe was run with the Sherman in overdrive. If your bearing noise is coming from the pto shaft there is no need to split the tractor to pull the pto shaft just drain the rear end fluid and hydraulic fluid take out the 4 bolts that hold the pto cover on and pull it out. With the backhoe you will have to remove that to get the pto shaft out.

Not being familiar with a Sherman under or over unit this may sound silly, but does the unit affect the PTO speed at all? With the lever forward and the PTO on there isn't a noise, but with that lever back it sure sounds like something is about to give. I thought at first that the rear PTO mounted pump had just about had it, but like I said with the lever forward everything sounds fine. The backhoe looks fairly simple to take off so if it is something with the PTO I'll be pretty happy given the alternatives.

 

[TractorDad3]

Not being familiar with a Sherman under or over unit this may sound silly, but does the unit affect the PTO speed at all? With the lever forward and the PTO on there isn't a noise, but with that lever back it sure sounds like something is about to give. I thought at first that the rear PTO mounted pump had just about had it, but like I said with the lever forward everything sounds fine. The backhoe looks fairly simple to take off so if it is something with the PTO I'll be pretty happy given the alternatives.

Yes the Sherman affects the PTO speed and I am guessing the backhoe operations perform much quicker in overdrive than under

 

[13fx]

Yes the Sherman affects the PTO speed and I am guessing the backhoe operations perform much quicker in overdrive than under

That's really good to know, that really gives me hope that it's the PTO shaft bearings. Now I'm going to have to beg the neighbor to help me unpin and put the backhoe in some kind of cradle.

 

[john in la]

The noise only happens when the Sherman is in overdrive. That makes one think something in the Sherman is bad and the noise is traveling out the pto shaft.

My first thought would be to try and duplicate the noise with different rpm ranges. As does the noise happen in under with higher rpm making the pto spin faster. Does the noise go away in overdrive at an idle.
From there I would take it step by step.
Take the pump off a run it.
Does the noise still happen.
Pull the pto shaft and run it.
Does the noise still happen.
And so on.

 

[stevob671]

That's really good to know, that really gives me hope that it's the PTO shaft bearings. Now I'm going to have to beg the neighbor to help me unpin and put the backhoe in some kind of cradle.

When we take our backhoe off, we just lower the pads and the bucket enough to take the weight off and pull the pins. After driving away, put blocks under to hold it in position.

 

[Sean in PA]

Is it using a PTO driven pump for the backhoe and loader, or a front mounted pump? If it is a PTO pump, then It could be the PTO shaft or pump bearings that are making the noise, and when it is in under drive the PTO isn't spinning fast enough to make the problem loud enough for you to hear it, but when it is in over drive the PTO spins faster and the bearings rattle enough for you to hear the noise.

 

[13fx]

Is it using a PTO driven pump for the backhoe and loader, or a front mounted pump? If it is a PTO pump, then It could be the PTO shaft or pump bearings that are making the noise, and when it is in under drive the PTO isn't spinning fast enough to make the problem loud enough for you to hear it, but when it is in over drive the PTO spins faster and the bearings rattle enough for you to hear the noise.

The loader runs off a front mounted pump and the backhoe runs off a rear PTO mounted pump.

 

[Sean in PA]

The loader runs off a front mounted pump and the backhoe runs off a rear PTO mounted pump.

OK, then my guess still applies.

 

[Andy Wickiser]

The loader runs off a front mounted pump and the backhoe runs off a rear PTO mounted pump.

Is the backhoe a Sherman 54C which Ford sold as a C8? You may be interested in the parts diagrams to determine, anyway that was the common one that had a rear PTO pump. Here's the link to the Messicks parts diagrams:

New Holland C8 - SHERMAN BACKHOE(01/54 - 12/64) Parts Diagrams

New Holland Parts Catalog Lookup. Buy New Holland Parts Online & Save!

messicks.com

On the Sherman auxilliary transmission, I just watched a very informative video on Youtube of one being installed in a Ford 8N but most stuff also applies to later tractors. He also had a prior video of a rebuild. Anyway the rebuilt unit he installed made a racket because of a new output shaft which wasn't quite right. So in your case this just shows that a Sherman Aux trans can be noisy if things worn or otherwise off.

 

[johnnmr]

I am unsure of all the Sherman variants, Grandpa's Jubilee has under/direct/overdrive. Just clarifying that the OP is not hanging up the Sherman in between gears.

That Jubilee is the handiest tractor on our farm due to the Sherman transmission.

 

[13fx]

Is the backhoe a Sherman 54C which Ford sold as a C8? You may be interested in the parts diagrams to determine, anyway that was the common one that had a rear PTO pump. Here's the link to the Messicks parts diagrams:

New Holland C8 - SHERMAN BACKHOE(01/54 - 12/64) Parts Diagrams

New Holland Parts Catalog Lookup. Buy New Holland Parts Online & Save!

messicks.com

On the Sherman auxilliary transmission, I just watched a very informative video on Youtube of one being installed in a Ford 8N but most stuff also applies to later tractors. He also had a prior video of a rebuild. Anyway the rebuilt unit he installed made a racket because of a new output shaft which wasn't quite right. So in your case this just shows that a Sherman Aux trans can be noisy if things worn or otherwise off.

I finally had a couple of minutes a d watched that video, thanks for sharing that. I knew nothing really about these units and thought you could either get an under drive or an overdrive unit. The fact that this unit has under/direct/over is way better than I had ever imagined. I was shifting between low and high and it was in the high range that I noticed the noise. Now that I know there is a whole other side I didn't know about I can tell that there is some noise in low, more in direct and a lot more in high it also sounds like it's coming from a little farther forward once I worked my way around the machine. The backhoe unit isn't the one you mentioned I believe, but according to the data plate it's an 1168

 

[Andy Wickiser]

I finally had a couple of minutes a d watched that video, thanks for sharing that. I knew nothing really about these units and thought you could either get an under drive or an overdrive unit. The fact that this unit has under/direct/over is way better than I had ever imagined. I was shifting between low and high and it was in the high range that I noticed the noise. Now that I know there is a whole other side I didn't know about I can tell that there is some noise in low, more in direct and a lot more in high it also sounds like it's coming from a little farther forward once I worked my way around the machine. The backhoe unit isn't the one you mentioned I believe, but according to the data plate it's an 1168

1168 is Sherman 54F which Ford calls F9

New Holland 1168 - SHERMAN F9 BASIC BACKHOE - 8N, NAA, 600, 800, 2000, 4000(01/52 - 12/64) Parts Diagrams

New Holland Parts Catalog Lookup. Buy New Holland Parts Online & Save!

messicks.com