Ford 3600 Unique Battery Question

[Luke0927]

Have a different one I'm sure and would appreciate some input.

Battery light come on the tractor, I found that 3 of my cell caps were missing off the tractor and that acid and been thrown out of the Battery. This is a die hard 4ldt with press on caps. I can't imagine these come off on their own, then it hit me my 86 year old grandpa next door has dementia I have a strong suspicion he might have done this.

My question is this i went ahead and checked with volt meter I'm only getting 13.05 v from the alternator, battery voltage is low.

Thoughts on the old alternator voltage should it be better on this tractor? 2nd one this is 4dlt battery any recommendations on a newer lower profile battery that would fit the tray and i could convert to a sealed battery?

Appreciate it!

 

[Jim.ME]

Have a different one I'm sure and would appreciate some input.

Battery light come on the tractor, I found that 3 of my cell caps were missing off the tractor and that acid and been thrown out of the Battery. This is a die hard 4ldt with press on caps. I can't imagine these come off on their own, then it hit me my 86 year old grandpa next door has dementia I have a strong suspicion he might have done this.

My question is this i went ahead and checked with volt meter I'm only getting 13.05 v from the alternator, battery voltage is low.

Thoughts on the old alternator voltage should it be better on this tractor? 2nd one this is 4dlt battery any recommendations on a newer lower profile battery that would fit the tray and i could convert to a sealed battery?

Appreciate it!

Where did you check voltage?

Was the engine running at least half throttle?

Is the fan belt tight?

What is the battery voltage at rest, engine not running? If the battery voltage is low the charge from the alternator may be lower than when the battery is fully charged.

 

[Luke0927]

Got my good fluke meter out.

Battery light is on at cluster.

13.1 v at altnator grounded at battery and measuring to hot post on back of alternator. 1400 rpms, belt could go a little tighter and i will adjust it.

Battery is showing 13.1v on this test while tractor is running.

Showing 13.2v while off currently.

I'm now getting little baffled, thank you for input.

Edit * I have tightened the belt up with pry bar and adjustable bracket, last test was 13.08 at altnator and battery.

 

[Sean in PA]

13.2 volts when the engine isn't running seems a bit high. They are usually around 12.6 volts when the charging circuit isn't active and there's no load. I would check the meter on a known good test bed. But the voltage being lower when it is running than when it is not definitely says that the charging circuit isn't working properly.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Have a different one I'm sure and would appreciate some input.

Battery light come on the tractor, I found that 3 of my cell caps were missing off the tractor and that acid and been thrown out of the Battery. This is a die hard 4ldt with press on caps. I can't imagine these come off on their own, then it hit me my 86 year old grandpa next door has dementia I have a strong suspicion he might have done this.

My question is this i went ahead and checked with volt meter I'm only getting 13.05 v from the alternator, battery voltage is low.

Thoughts on the old alternator voltage should it be better on this tractor? 2nd one this is 4dlt battery any recommendations on a newer lower profile battery that would fit the tray and i could convert to a sealed battery?

Appreciate it!

A 48 are 94 works well you will need to make a new hold down for them.

 

[Luke0927]

13.2 volts when the engine isn't running seems a bit high. They are usually around 12.6 volts when the charging circuit isn't active and there's no load. I would check the meter on a known good test bed. But the voltage being lower when it is running than when it is not definitely says that the charging circuit isn't working properly.

Meter checks good just checked another battery 12.6, 13.2 on the tractor...I think i would of smelled it but mayne this battery over charged or heated something up with it. It is only about a year old.

Does anyone know what voltage the regulator wants to see to not throw a light?

 

[Destroked 450]

Group 65 diesel pickup battery works really well but you’ll need to get a longer ground cable or relocate where it’s grounded, I went to one of the intake manifold bolts on my 6610
13.8-14.2 is normal charging voltage, 13.1 is a little low but that battery may be causing issues

 

[Luke0927]

Hey folks bumping this back up appreciate some input. Pulled the altnator took it to my buddies grandpa who rebuilds alternators and he went through it and freshened it up.

Got time to put it on this eve and still only getting 13v out of it and battery light on.

Help me here
These alternator have 4 wires positive to battery, ground, battery light, and the 4th over by the positive i believe would be the voltage regulator correct?

The voltage regulator is sealed so im need more work to trace it if that is correct. Could my voltage regulator be bad and telling the alternator to lower output?

Can i pull that and test it or how do i test my voltage regulator?

Also questioning if alternator still has an issue...

 

[Sean in PA]

If it is the original style alternator with the external VR, I don't think that any terminals on the alternator should be connected directly to the battery. I believe that there should be two wires from the alternator to the VR, and then one from the VR to the battery. You should check the original wiring schematic in the Service Manual to be sure, as my memory on those early alternator setups isn't the best.

 

[Luke0927]

Yes external volt regulator and a motorola alternator. 4 wire on the alternator is what is on this 3600. I know this is long but bare with me this is interesting appreciate input.

An now I think im even a little more confused ford service manual 3600 model wiring diagram shows only 3 wire alternator layout below.

+ side to the fuse link. Which is what i meant about power to battery. Also my fuse link did blow to start this investigation.

S- terminal to battery sensor ( i do not have one) then to instrument cluster to key ( thought this would be the battery light, but see text below).

WL - shows to instrument cluster, alternator warning lamp then to voltage "stabilizer".

If I look at the 6700/7700 model it matches more what i have on my 3600.

F - wire to voltage stabilizer

WL- to connector bulk head (warning lamp i believe its meaning?)

+ to fuse link and starter solenoid

G - to ground.


This 6700/7700 matches what i have traced out before. It looks to be all factory. I wonder if this model had an upgraded electrical system

 

[Hacke]

Yes external volt regulator and a motorola alternator. 4 wire on the alternator is what is on this 3600. I know this is long but bare with me this is interesting appreciate input.

An now I think im even a little more confused ford service manual 3600 model wiring diagram shows only 3 wire alternator layout below.

+ side to the fuse link. Which is what i meant about power to battery. Also my fuse link did blow to start this investigation.

S- terminal to battery sensor ( i do not have one) then to instrument cluster to key ( thought this would be the battery light, but see text below).

WL - shows to instrument cluster, alternator warning lamp then to voltage "stabilizer".

If I look at the 6700/7700 model it matches more what i have on my 3600.

F - wire to voltage stabilizer

WL- to connector bulk head (warning lamp i believe its meaning?)

+ to fuse link and starter solenoid

G - to ground.


This 6700/7700 matches what i have traced out before. It looks to be all factory. I wonder if this model had an upgraded electrical system

Your diagrams are for Lucas alternator with internal regulator.
You have a Motorola alternator with external regulator.

Check if there is a diode on the output wire, if so test it.

*** Edit
By the way, I am having problems with the Cloudflare gadget that is installed in the forum´s system. Hopefully someone else will help when I am being locked out.
***

 

[Hacke]

Your diagrams are for Lucas alternator with internal regulator.
You have a Motorola alternator with external regulator.

Check if there is a diode on the output wire, if so test it.

View attachment 128867

View attachment 128868

*** Edit
By the way, I am having problems with the Cloudflare gadget that is installed in the forum´s system. Hopefully someone else will help when I am being locked out.
***

Attached a PDF with testing instructions.

 

[Luke0927]

Thank you I'll look for a diode, for my learning why would there be a diode and what does it do? The field terminal on the alternator also goes to the regulator also correct, if you were going to do a bypass of the regulator to test if you are getting higher output from the alternator it's done by manipulating that correct?

 

[Hacke]

Thank you I'll look for a diode, for my learning why would there be a diode and what does it do? The field terminal on the alternator also goes to the regulator also correct, if you were going to do a bypass of the regulator to test if you are getting higher output from the alternator it's done by manipulating that correct?

I doubt that there is a diode, and do not understand why it should be there. I looked at a wiring diagram where the diode is shown. I did not post the diagram because it has flaws and can be misleading, anyhow I attached it in a PDF to this post. Apart from other issues with the diagram, the battery charging (Output) wire is connected together with the wire for regulator and warning light to the AUX (REG) post. It is not a wild guess to assume that the diode is wrong as well.

Check the brushes and slip rings.

Then:
For safety, disconnect the regulator wires from the alternator, at Field Terminal and Regulator Terminal.
Connect a jumper wire between Output Terminal and Field Terminal.
Hook up a voltmeter between Output Terminal and Ground Terminal.
Start the engine, increase the engine speed slowly and watch the voltmeter.

This test full-fields the alternator and should only be performed for a shorter time.


*** Edit
Added brush length to the image
***

 

[Luke0927]

So i found the voltage is below 5v betwen the ground and the regulator terminal and ground with key switch on.

So next i need to make the jumper from regulator to field terminal, from the diagram it looks like we keep the connections on the alternator and just put the jumper between them.

Do you agree or would i pull the connector off the f terminal when i build the jumper?

***edit re-reading the manual i believe its saying above or below 1.5v not 5v. I was reading 2.1v so I'm higher than the manual is expecting between the regulator and ground **

 

[Hacke]

Sorry, I was unclear in post #14. The test I described there (full-fielding the alternator) will show if the alternator is charging as it should. I thought that would be good to do before testing the regulator as in the manual. I understand that you are performing the manual's '2. Excitation Voltage Test' now? Just follow the instructions.

The manual has decimal points placed in an uncommon manner; '1·5 volts' means 1.5 volts and not 1–5 volts.

 

[Luke0927]

Thank you I'll make a jumper tonight and check the out with the field test. Let you knoe my results.

 

[Non-farmer]

By the way, I am having problems with the Cloudflare gadget that is installed in the forum´s system. Hopefully someone else will help when I am being locked out.

Cloudflare is a separate set of servers which are between us and the server YT is hosted on. Think of them as security guards located outside the building you are going to.

The only time cloudflare chooses to interrupt the process of me loading this site is when I use a VPN which is located outside of the US. Can you narrow down the circumstances that cause cloudflare to notify you of a problem?

 

[Hacke]

Cloudflare is a separate set of servers which are between us and the server YT is hosted on. Think of them as security guards located outside the building you are going to.

The only time cloudflare chooses to interrupt the process of me loading this site is when I use a VPN which is located outside of the US. Can you narrow down the circumstances that cause cloudflare to notify you of a problem?

Non-farmer/
The problems started with the introduction of the new forum, I was blocked by Cloudflare. The support team could not find a solution and thought it had to do with me being outside of the US (I am in Sweden). How that could be a reason to be blocked was unclear.

I tried to connect about once a week and was blocked for a about a year. After that I am allowed sporadically. For the time being, I can access the forum but have to go through the 'Verify you are human' process at entry and when I move around in the forum (going from thread to thread or refresh), or I get a 'Security error occurred. Please press back, refresh the page, and try again.' message. Refreshing will, of course, give the same result.

The forum is a great service aimed for potential Y&T/PartsAsap customers, and they are in the US. I fully understand why other users are not of interest.

Luke/
Sorry for hijacking your thread.

 

[Non-farmer]

@Hacke - sorry to hear it, but that fits with my own experience, namely, Cloudflare blocking connections from outside the US. I hope our hosts can do something to fix this.